Does Cuba "Run" the cigar market

[HunterD]

Since most everyone on here smokes cuban cigars, and knows what the hype is all about, I have question/discussion for you all.
I was having a chat with a cigar friend of mine who has immense knowledge of cigar(He is a cigar rep in fact). Ive been on the cuban kick as of late and he cannot stand it. He literally despises cuban cigars. To my knowledge, he has no palate. However, this conversation led to why I think cuban cigars are the best cigars in the world as far as flavor profile and the palate go and no other cigars can compete. No "spice/harshness" no overly powerful and definitely not a cigar that will kick your ass like a LFD DL chisel. (Gross). I tried to explain with the best of my knowledge that when you walk into almost any cigar shop outside of the US (Premium cigar shop) you will find almost all cubans. The only non-cubans may be padron/Fuente/and just a few other non-cuban brands. That is because there is no demand for non-cuban cigars outside of the U.S and non-cubans cannot compete to Cuban tobacco.

Now, I do not know the ratio of smokers in the US vs Europe or China or Australia but from what I have heard and read Cuba owns the cigar market outside of the U.S.

So, is this true? It seems all these thousands of non-cubans cigar brands can only survive in the U.S. to my knowledge. Enlighten me.

[Johnny-O!]

On my trips to Cuba I have gotten locals to smoke NC cigars over the years. Most would say: "there's a lot of smoke there, but really no substance." After a few cigars the director of 5ta y 16 Osmani Rios went as far to say: "Don't bring me that *hit anymore!". To find out if they really knew about cigars later I would slip them an unbanded HUp#2. They would say that was a great cigar, what was it? I know its a small sample size but I feel the Cubans don't care much for the NC cigars in general. Cubans also don't have the technical info that we do to make a decision (stats, reviews, recommendations etc) but their palates don't fail them. John

[AlohaStyle]

Sorry, but I'm not a fan of these questions... what is the best?  That is so subjective.  What your best will be different than my best, his best, their best etc.  What's the best beer in the world?  Westlveteren 12?  Pliny the Elder, Tree House, Bourbon County Stout, Miller Lite?  What's the best wine?  A nice French Bordeaux, Napa Cab? 

It's all good when people say their favorite cigar is a Cuban, or Nicaraguan etc, but when they pronounce with an attitude that something is the best, I tune them out.  Smoke what you like. 

And by the way, many Europeans are smoking and getting into NCs.  I can't remember what city it was, but I just read about a cigar shop opening up in Europe that was strictly NCs. 

[HunterD]

[quote author=AlohaStyle link=topic=40250.msg166767#msg166767 date=1481014536]
Sorry, but I'm not a fan of these questions... what is the best?  That is so subjective.  What your best will be different than my best, his best, their best etc.  What's the best beer in the world?  Westlveteren 12?  Pliny the Elder, Tree House, Bourbon County Stout, Miller Lite?  What's the best wine?  A nice French Bordeaux, Napa Cab? 

It's all good when people say their favorite cigar is a Cuban, or Nicaraguan etc, but when they pronounce with an attitude that something is the best, I tune them out.  Smoke what you like. 


And by the way, many Europeans are smoking and getting into NCs.  I can't remember what city it was, but I just read about a cigar shop opening up in Europe that was strictly NCs. 
[/quote]

There a plenty things that define what is best in a cigar. Leaf, soil, aging, flavor profile, construction. Same with beer and spirits. Mash bill, barrel, aging time, climate, ect all go into making something great. I honestly don't think spirits or cigars are "objective" and "everyone tastes different". Truthfully everyone tastes the same thing. Perceptions might be different based on palate strength but there is a reason people put tasting notes on wine and spirits.

[Pole Lock]

When I was in the Netherlands, I'd find random Fuente Opus and a few Padrons in the cigar shops, but, yes, the vast majority was Cuban. In Cornwall, there were no NC at the shops I was going to.   Like you said, there is little demand for NC outside of the US, especially since only a small fraction of NC are worth smoking, IMO.

Why do people like CC better? Much better terroir in the flavors and aromas. Despite the mantra circulated by NC reps for years, I find CC better constructed on the average. The price to quality ratio is also much better with CC - a $6 HUPC kicks the hell out of any Fuente or Padron I've had. Finally, CC seem to generally market as a luxury product whereas Drew Estate, Caldwell, Tatuaje, etc seem to go after the uncouth hipster market.

Sorry your friend is butthurt about having to rep an inferior product.

[HunterD]

Exactly. The "Mantra" from reps and owners is unreal. I have met Cigar owners Nick Perdomo and Christian Eiroa (CLE/Asylum) and have heard them personally bash Cuban cigars and the construction issues CC have. Yet, I have smoked almost 70 CC already within just a few months of being into them and have found no issues. Not 1 cigar out of the 70 or so has been plugged and maybe 5 or 6 have burned funcky and that was because they have very dark and oily wrappers....and they needed more aged and rest.
I also agree that most $6-9 CC beat 95% of the $15+ NC cigars. I will say they I do enjoy the OpusX angels share and the Don Arturo. They have a wonderful bready and ripe fruit notes that I love.

Loving this discussion.  :clap:

[Pole Lock]

[quote author=HunterD link=topic=40250.msg166785#msg166785 date=1481051879]
Exactly. The "Mantra" from reps and owners is unreal. I have met Cigar owners Nick Perdomo and Christian Eiroa (CLE/Asylum) and have heard them personally bash Cuban cigars and the construction issues CC have. Yet, I have smoked almost 70 CC already within just a few months of being into them and have found no issues. Not 1 cigar out of the 70 or so has been plugged and maybe 5 or 6 have burned funcky and that was because they have very dark and oily wrappers....and they needed more aged and rest.
I also agree that most $6-9 CC beat 95% of the $15+ NC cigars. I will say they I do enjoy the OpusX angels share and the Don Arturo. They have a wonderful bready and ripe fruit notes that I love.

Loving this discussion.  :clap:
[/quote]

If you're talking about those Don Arturo DaS, then, yeah, those are hard to beat. They're easy enough to match with a CC half the price, but they're not the same - sometimes you just need that Domincan flair.

It is my understanding that CC classically had construction issues, but that has largely been addressed. I didn't start buying them until 2007, but since then, I've typically found them better constructed than NC by a wide margin.

What gets me is the old mantra of "Fuente's/Padron's legendary quality control." Maybe I've smoked too many, but I find a lot of lopsided bunching, void space and, conversely, hard spots across most of their lines. And Fuente does have good quality with respect to most non-boutique brands, which isn't saying much.

For years, even as CC have become more readily available, it seems that the NC market has largely subsisted by keeping the rumor mill re: CC going. If people found out that CC quality issues have improved dramatically since 06/07, well, I guess General Cigar would have a big problem on their hands.

[Hutch]

[quote author=Pole Lock link=topic=40250.msg166773#msg166773 date=1481040560]
When I was in the Netherlands, I'd find random Fuente Opus and a few Padrons in the cigar shops, but, yes, the vast majority was Cuban. In Cornwall, there were no NC at the shops I was going to.   Like you said, there is little demand for NC outside of the US, especially since only a small fraction of NC are worth smoking, IMO.

Why do people like CC better? Much better terroir in the flavors and aromas. Despite the mantra circulated by NC reps for years, I find CC better constructed on the average. The price to quality ratio is also much better with CC - a $6 HUPC kicks the hell out of any Fuente or Padron I've had. Finally, CC seem to generally market as a luxury product whereas Drew Estate, Caldwell, Tatuaje, etc seem to go after the uncouth hipster market.

Sorry your friend is butthurt about having to rep an inferior product.
[/quote]

Pose much ?