Who's responsible for package? (part 2)

[AlohaStyle]

Seeing a comment in the PGR thread, it got me thinking again about who is responsible for lost packages in the mail when it comes to cuban cigars... seller, buyer, or a combination?

Here is the original thread if anyone wants to read through it, it's a good read if you are newer to the game and/or haven't thought about it before.
[url=http://www.onlinehumidor.com/forum/index.php?topic=22708.80]http://www.onlinehumidor.com/forum/index.php?topic=22708.80[/url]

Many people, including me, buy cuban cigars from a couple vendors that don't guarantee. We buy knowing the risk and sometimes we don't get our cigars and lose the money.  Sometimes we get "the letter", sometimes nothing and are left wondering if it simply got lost in the mail or what.  So why is it any different when a transaction is between 2 people if the seller does not want to "guarantee" a package?  USPS insurance is not possible when dealing with cuban cigars.  You can say the difference is US Customs taking a package vs simply getting lost in the mail, but the principle is the same... if the buyer doesn't get it, then what?

If a seller can prove he put the correct address etc on the package and tracking/DC# shows it delivered, who is responsible?

[hungrylikawolf]

I would think that many would not purchase if the seller did not guarantee. It would be easy for a seller to post pictures of good condition cigars and then swap them and ship and claim the USPS damaged. For me I think they are my responsibility until they make it safely to your door.  Nothing is fool proof and buyers and sellers can always be scammed by someone claiming shipment was damaged or lost. At the end of the day they both have to live with the way it will affect their reputation and conscience. Personally I may lose out on occasion but I'd rather take responsibility for the cigars until they reach the buyers hands.

[JohnE1000]

IMHO, the buyer should always ask and never assume. Trading CC is totally different than NC. And, if the buyer doesn't trust the seller, the buyer should never engage in the trade. It is irresponsible to just assume that the seller assumes all the risks.

[armmmmm]

IMO, it's really hard to hold either party responsible. I personally had an incident not too long ago where a package purchased here (one that had 5 full boxes of goodies) was marked delivered by USPS yet, I had not received it. I reached out to double check the sender had the correct address and they did. I ended up getting the package two days later. However, not once did I feel it was the senders fault because it wasn't. It's difficult to hold either party responsible especially since someone is out both money and cigars in either scenario.

[Fireant]

I had a bottle of rum from Johnny O go missing once. John had a tracking number that said it was delivered (that he hadn't sent me but showed me after I messaged him). I called the post office and provided the tracking number and they told me I was shit out of luck.

John replaced the bottle with no questions asked. Looking back, I should have offered to split the cost, or even take the hit as my loss, as it would have been impossible for him to "fake" the tracking number. I am lucky he was enough of a gentleman to rely on my honesty and integrity.

[TheGiver]

Fireant, exactly.

Seller [b]always[/b] responsible. LOL please. Only in your world.

[canadianbeaver]

this has happened when I was selling here, which is not very often. I refunded right away, but we agreed that should the package somehow miraculously show up to  either of us, the money will be returned.

CB

[Cohim]

I think it depends if it is a trade, or a sale. If I give you money, I expect what I paid for. If it's a trade, and I have something to replace what was lost, I would do it. Unless it's Tapps, then that's a horse of another color, and if it's the giver I would just paint a liga with a marker and resend.  :bigup:

[Vitulla]

If your dealing with someone you trust, once seller drops off item at post office, his end of the deal is done. That is IMO

[KPP]

There's no black and white answer to this question. Each transaction  is different. In most cases however, my opinion is its a mutually  shared loss - assuming an accurate address  can be corroborated somehow. Trust is the x-factor and won't always be present in every deal. You have to rely on feedback to mitigate risk, but even that's not perfect.

I just did a deal where I had 3 pkgs sent my way from a BOTL that was hooking me up with an ISO. 2 arrived safely....one is still MIA. I don't expect him to eat the loss. At a minimum, I'll share it & most likely even cover it cause it's the right thing to do.

Again, too many variables to make it a one size fits all in the private market. If you have two reasonable adults involved  in the transaction, a resolution  can and should be made easily . If you dont, take it to the BZ and let the masses weigh in with opinion on the facts. Keep PMs, photo shipping label addys...the more proof you have, the better. Otherwise  all you have to rely on is reputation...and as we've recently  seen, that's not always indicative of an honorable individual.

My .02