Ninja's "Group Buy Cuban Customs"...

[anacostiakat]

[quote author=forgop link=topic=42662.msg173670#msg173670 date=1503710574]
Just my take...

Traveling to Cuba ain't cheap.  A guy takes his personal time down there, flight, hotel, etc that comes out of his pocket, which is certainly covered by sales.  Additionally, I'm guessing Dallas doesn't have a line of credit to use with the rollers and must pay at the time he picks up. 

You also have the tire kicker crowd to contend with here, who will want something, but seems to flake out and not follow through with purchases.  That's not the case with most long standing and respected members here, but it happens.  It eliminates the hassle of being stuck with cigars that weren't paid for because I'm sure there would be buyers in every group buy who would come back 30 or 60 days later saying something came up and didn't have the funds. 

Frankly, I've just paid the 100% of it up front and not had worry about it later.  He's not always successful filling everything ever single trip as rollers can run behind and just not have it ready when he's there, but offers refunds/substitutions for what he cannot deliver as planned.  I think the process works just fine. 
[/quote]

This!

Good Lawd.  What a craptacular post.  :ordr:

[Ninja]

[quote author=Lotusguy link=topic=42662.msg173675#msg173675 date=1503724472]
I'm not buying his nor any other custom rolls. Not interested. Can't estimate his profit without knowing how many bundles are being purchased but my guess is it's about 300% minus travel expenses. He can do whatever he wants and so can the buyers. Thanks for implying that I am simply too cheap to buy them - you couldn't be more wrong.

Calling it a "group buy" is a misnomer, though, and that was my only point above.
[/quote]

BWWWAAAAAAA!!! 300% before travel?! Man I WISH! lol I DEF appreciate how you articulate your thoughts, and I appreciate what you see from your side. That said, it appears there is still a lot that is not understood about costs and how things work down there.

Ufff...I wish.... ;)

[Ninja]

[quote author=CanuckSARTech link=topic=42662.msg173476#msg173476 date=1503089480]

Because getting people to put 75% down, for cigars you don't yet have in hand, seems like a pretty comfortable position to be in?  I mean, I sell off some of my Jorgito Monsdales and Robusto Largos and Yolanda Piramides occasionally too.  But, it's all stuff that I have in hand, personally, and stuff that I've bought directly myself, so I can speak 100% to the provenance of them. 

My prices might be higher, but I assume the risk and the additional costs with it all.

I mean, not trying to shit on the guy for doing it, but 75% down for a yet-to-be-guaranteed order seems fairly well-off.

Or am I missing something???

[/quote]

My man, it definately feels like you are trying to start some stuff. You are articulating yourself in a way I appreciate, but you have been given answers by other posters that should have sufficed, but you continued re-asking the same, so it def appears to be something else.

I think you second question is valid to a degree, but this should have been handled in email, and never will I post details in an open forum. Your first question is not valid.

Now you are not my boss, so I am not inclined to answer demands or insinuations, but there are a couple points noted in this thread that I think are good for newer folk to read, if they see this, so I am going to post a couple more times to add to clarity.

I will start with this. People ghost. People ghost all the time. Established members here ghost. And people often don't pay for a variety of reasons. Anyone that is surprised by that, imho, has little experience in retail and sales. My service in GBs is about customization. I cannot take orders from people for what they want and then they ghost and no pay. Then I have to find buyers to cover there cost. I have done this before and it is a problem. As well as slow pays. I have had big orders that I fronted the buyers and they took 30-45 days to pay. I won't carry thousands on the books for that waiting situation. It is a litmus test as to weather people can pay primarily. Plus I have no interest in fronting thousands of dollars for sticks I sell for $275 and others sell for $400. And more often than you think, some people can't get the 25% for various reasons and I work with them to handle this. I have calculated an amount to cover the average based expense and travel and that is were the 75% comes in. It is downside payment protection. Honestly, it is common sense.

And as has been noted earlier, most every group buys takes 100%. I don't because of the profit component. Those often take up to 2-3 and as long as 6 months to complete. I am constantly working to keep the time between payment and cigar delivery low.

And to not call this a group buy is just nuts. You do a group buy and you order what you want. Even if it is a lot of just one item, or varias mezclas from a certain roller, you are getting what you want. A big order is shipped to one guy and he splits stuff up and mails it to the group. The store makes money when they sell it. With me: There is a trip. There is fixed space on the trip. A group decides what they want, and I bring it back and ship it to the group. Group buy. Profit is irrelevant in definitions of procedure.

[Ninja]

[quote author=CanuckSARTech link=topic=42662.msg173504#msg173504 date=1503188864]
My main reason I'm wondering is actually this - it seems like a LOT of deposit down.  And to me, it just seems to be too much variety there, and just way too many rollers, from way too many locations, and potentially way too much quantity.  From my experience, there's just a cautionary note there about too many hands being involved - that's what MY OWN first impression is / would be.  

[/quote]

This is an email type question, but as was pointed out to you, I have long term relationships and friendships with almost all of these people. I have email, phone numbers, mobile numbers, and they all know what I do and we work together to do what we can. The "too many hands" issue is why I pick up all the orders myself, personally. Cuba is not foreign to me, so some of these contact and follow through things are easier for me than say, an occasional tourist.

I have a system. It is detailed. If a roller doesn't have an item ready....I can refund or get it when I go back in 2-4 weeks. Easy.

[Ninja]

[quote author=CanuckSARTech link=topic=42662.msg173540#msg173540 date=1503335889]
Regarding your first, it's not generally been an issue for Canadians to cross your borders with cigars.  And your guys' limits were 50 before, and are 100 sticks now.  It's not a prohibited item.

[/quote]

This is not correct information. It IS a prohibited item. We are allowed to being in 100 cuban cigars DUTY FREE (and pay taxes on any amount exceed this if they are for personal use) ONLY if the cigars were purchased in Cuba while on a licensed trip by OFAC. So buying cigars in Canada and running them across the border is still, technically, prohibited.

That said, I will say that I have PERSONALLY seen and experienced US Customs at a Canadian border allow these prohibited in. I have also many times had to explain US Cuba policy to the customs agents there, point them to the US Treasury website, and one used my website to study the allowed OFAC licenses because she was unfamiliar with them. So I would not recommend telling people this because if the agents learn the rules and/or decide to follow them, it could be an issue. And even though many customs agents are just, "letting the Cuban cigars go" in general, the moment you get the one agent with a chip on his shoulder, you are going to have trouble. Just understand your risks.

[Ninja]

[quote author=CanuckSARTech link=topic=42662.msg173532#msg173532 date=1503327165]
And the post from SRQCigarman getting through with 500 -

I mean, is that a fluke???


I'm just wondering how concerning it is about too many hands dealing with the cigars, and fear of gov't repercussions (in both countries).

[/quote]

Its not a fluke because you simply pay the taxes now. In fact it is way easier now in the US than it used to be. And as has been said already, Cuba customs is way more of a concern. Again though, I have a system, it is complex, and much experience.

That said, with Trumps potential rule changes towards Cuba, there is the possibility that the majority of Cuban cigars purchases on licenced trips, not even the 100 cigars,will be allowed. Because they are being purchased from a Cuban government business. If US Customs adapts this as internal guidance, I already have a a contingency plan to comply with the new rules and still get my cigars in (subject to the 100 duty free rules).

You use of the word repercussions above makes me feel like you have a perception of US and Cuban feeling towards cigars that is not well grounded. I will assume you just meant seizure, and nothing more.

[Lotusguy]

[quote author=Ninja link=topic=42662.msg173697#msg173697 date=1503884936]
BWWWAAAAAAA!!! 300% before travel?! Man I WISH! lol I DEF appreciate how you articulate your thoughts, and I appreciate what you see from your side. That said, it appears there is still a lot that is not understood about costs and how things work down there.

Ufff...I wish.... ;)
[/quote]

I don't give two shits if you make 2000%. It's everybody's prerogative to participate or not. You aren't just doing this out of the goodness of your heart, though. This is a straight up business for you, is it not?

You and I have very different definitions of a group buy - let's leave it at that.

Best of luck.

[Ninja]

[quote author=CanuckSARTech link=topic=42662.msg173541#msg173541 date=1503336007]
Yeah, it is a pain leaving.  Some friends used to travel with one large hockey bag for luggage, and always had a hassle.  LOL.  I like multiple smaller checked bags, as it's not as much as a big deal to them there if it's not such a big pile of cigars in one luggage piece!
[/quote]

I do not recommend checking multiple bags for anyone leaving Cuba! If you have multiple bags checked under the same name, you are automatically tagged by Aduana (customs) and they look at your bags closer. I have been down that road all with BAD results. Aduana told me personally, face to face, not to do that and why.

Now I am glad CanuckSARTech has had good luck with that. Maybe he didn't have a ton of cigars either. Don't know. However, I want to STRONGLY DISCOURAGE anyone traveling to Cuba from checking multiple bags under the same name.

[Ninja]

[quote author=Lotusguy link=topic=42662.msg173703#msg173703 date=1503889259]
I don't give two shits if you make 2000%. It's everybody's prerogative to participate or not. You aren't just doing this out of the goodness of your heart, though. This is a straight up business for you, is it not?

You and I have very different definitions of a group buy - let's leave it at that.

Best of luck.

[/quote]

Never thought you gave a shit honestly. Never took it that way. Just wanted to make a note about the 300%, not that you had an issue. Seriously. Honestly, I appreciate knowing your thoughts on that.

As to agree to disagree, absolutely. I understand where you are coming from, and I believe your understand my pov. Understanding is the most important thing. No worries.

[Ninja]

[quote author=SRQCigarman link=topic=42662.msg173537#msg173537 date=1503331170]
I declared in the US and paid duties, no biggie. Cuba is a bigger deal as the customs limits. I probably won't get as many this trip in November because I don't want to deal with Cuba customs.

[/quote]

Charlton, email me before your trip and I will help you with that. If you are going in Nov for the Partagas Dinner, I will be there too and we may be able to discuss it in person.