98 Fundadores value?

[Fuente Fan]

Dang now I see you have them up for sale at $40 a stick and no proof of age or factory.  Dangerous move on your part.  This is exactly how fakes and things not what they say they are sold.  You contribute to flooding the market, box passes, trades, and everything else with bad sticks.  First rule, you never sell something you are not 100% sure what it is.  Good luck. 

[Chargerfan]

[quote author=Fuente Fan link=topic=23176.msg104016#msg104016 date=1386357959]
Dang now I see you have them up for sale at $40 a stick and no proof of age or factory.  Dangerous move on your part.  This is exactly how fakes and things not what they say they are sold.  You contribute to flooding the market, box passes, trades, and everything else with bad sticks.  First rule, you never sell something you are not 100% sure what it is.  Good luck.
[/quote]

You're certainly welcome to an opinion, as well as the decision not to purchase. However, you mention "dangerous, fakes, and bad sticks" in you reply. If there is any item in the pics that suggests anything other than authenticity, please let me know.

With mentions of 99's-2002's being placed in 1998 boxes, it can't be the lack of the box that suggests that. Repeatedly what is stressed is knowing the vendor, and trusting the source. Right? These were delivered to an LCDH from their Authorized Habanos regional distributor as seen. I purchased directly from the LCDH. I had Multiple communications with them, and They repeatedly confirmed the year.

I tried to relay the story as effectively as possible, and as I purchased these at a premium, and not in the original box, I had to trust my source as well. Everything had to add up in order for me to place my order. The patina on the bands, no date code anywhere on the boxes, and the XX seal confirming these had been re-inspected by Habanos S.A. All backed up what I was told.

Certainly, some will want to purchase a sealed box, if one becomes available, but you know where mine came from, and I think I priced them accordingly and fairly. Ultimately, they are grail sticks to some, (including me) and I don't feel like me selling a few is a dangerous move, nor contributing to flooding any market with bad sticks.

Please take the reply in good faith, as I'm not in this for the short term, and look forward to continuing to be a part of this community for a long time to come.

J






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[jimbobber]

I can't wait for this thread to be moved to the Battle Zone.  :nana:

[Lotusguy]

$40 a stick with provenance that cannot be proven - LOL


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[Fuente Fan]

[quote author=Chargerfan link=topic=23176.msg104021#msg104021 date=1386361170]
If there is any item in the pics that suggests anything other than authenticity, please let me know.
[font=Verdana]Is there anything in the pictures that do suggests authenticity, no!  No original box, no date code, and talk.[/font]

I don't feel like me selling a few is a dangerous move, nor contributing to flooding any market with bad sticks.
[font=Verdana]How do you think this process starts?  People like you times thousands.  I understand you really wanting to try this cigar and taking a chance.  It is when you go out on the open market and sell these cigars as something you have no proof of, is where you crossed the line.  Read the TL story.[/font]

Please take the reply in good faith, as I'm not in this for the short term, and look forward to continuing to be a part of this community for a long time to come.
[font=Verdana]If this is true you would not have put these out on the Market.  As people then turn and sell them, your story will be lost and the will just be represented as 1998s.  As issue you started.  Sorry, just my honest feelings.  Didn't say you are a bad guy, but you made a bad mistake here.[/font]
[/quote]

[fuentesjunkie]

Sounds like the best you can really expect from these questionable-provenanced cigars would be to send potential buyers fivers to try, with the agreement that, after smoking one they either pay you, or ship the remaining 4 back to you. If you do it that way, and choose your customers wisely, you have virtually no chance of getting burned (unless you were already burned), and you might make some new acquaintances. Again, if you choose wisely and don't push to move these too hard.

That's one of the only ways you protect your credibilty (if you are wanting to stay the long course), and still be able to potentially sell those sticks. Especially those sticks, as 98 Fundadores seem to always come up in fake/non-provenanced discussions. It's so bad that I'd bet most people who've been around awhile would concur that 98 Fundy's are one of the most talked about cigars ever, both bad/good.

Just my opinion....but what do I know?

Best of luck in moving these. If not, enjoy them for awesomeness that they are.

[mcgoospot]

I guess the only thing to add here is that it appears from Trevor's site that the 5x5 packagin of boxes of Trinidad Fundadores did not Start until 2002. I cannot recall ever seeing '98 Trinidad's sold in anything but a 24 or 50 cab. His site says the 5x5's are circa2002 which makes sense.
In addition I have not seen the XX tax stamp on any boxes pre 2000.

Lastly, there should be a tax stamp under the XX stamp which should give some evidence of provenance.


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[Chargerfan]

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=23176.msg104098#msg104098 date=1386440647]
I guess the only thing to add here is that it appears from Trevor's site that the 5x5 packagin of boxes of Trinidad Fundadores did not Start until 2002. I cannot recall ever seeing '98 Trinidad's sold in anything but a 24 or 50 cab. His site says the 5x5's are circa2002 which makes sense.

In addition I have not seen the XX tax stamp on any boxes pre 2000.


Lastly, there should be a tax stamp under the XX stamp which should give some evidence of provenance.


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[/quote]

The cigars were placed in the 5x5 recently. The distribution warehouse contacted Habanos S.A. In Havana, and they transferred the cigars from the box to the 5x5. Then Habanos placed the XX seal stating they had been re-inspected. This allowed the cigars, which who's box was in rough shape, to be appropriate for retail sale.


That is why there is no date code on the box or the individual cartons. Habanos supplied them well after the original production date.

If they were 2002, and these were their original boxes, there would be a date code inside the flap, as well as the original seal under the XX seal.

Im not sure what the tax stamp is, but Im attaching a photo of another barcode that is on the box.

[IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/08/enyrysyr.jpg[/img]


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[fuentesjunkie]

So, how do the cigars taste? if you've had a 98 fundadore, then you probably can tell how close or exact they taste. and they better be damned close is your re-sell them and don't want to become a pariah. As friendly as the cigar community is, we can be some of the most inforgiving pricks around.

Packaging is an afterthought, especially in this case. So, spare yourself the agony of hoping to find the truth there. The truth can be found in the smoke. At least the only truth that matters... ;D

[mk05]

While I love both your enthusiasm and willingness to be transparent, there isn't 100% certainty that these Fundadores are what Moises claims them to be. Repackaged - at least to me - is an automatic red flag.

Here is a list of the best course of action you should take, ranked in the order of responsibility:
1) Refund + recall
2) Refund + recall
3) Refund + recall
4) Refund partial if buyer wants to keep, and make transparent who and why in order to avoid purchase from him in the future

While waiting until these are smoked is an option, you are taking a huge chance on your reputation being tarnished. There is just too much uncertainty - you yourself have no idea, just faith in promise. These should not have been sold, nevertheless be advertised as '98s.