Internet cigar community and OLH history (from my perspective)

[lundens]

The original Danny's site (besides the porn) was the Good Trader's Board.  You had to get a numbers of members to vouch for you before you could get on and see what individuals were trading, selling, or wanted.  It didn't work well because you had to look at each members profile to see what they had or wanted. 

[randomhero1090]

Very interesting read.  I got into the online world about 6 years ago.  Very glad to have found OLH.  I've met some great people and acquired some awesome cigars.

[Fuente Fan]

[quote author=lundens link=topic=745.msg65584#msg65584 date=1326661198]
The original Danny's site (besides the porn) was the Good Trader's Board.  You had to get a numbers of members to vouch for you before you could get on and see what individuals were trading, selling, or wanted.   It didn't work well because you had to look at each members profile to see what they had or wanted.   
[/quote]

But you didn't have to worry about who you were dealing with.  There were none of these large scale cons going on then.

[WadeFillingame]

[quote author=Fuente Fan link=topic=745.msg65616#msg65616 date=1326740541]
But you didn't have to worry about who you were dealing with.  There were none of these large scale cons going on then.
[/quote]

What "large scale cons" are you talking about?  Yes, there was TL, otherwise?  One instance is a data point, not a trend.  You act as if everyone who posts for sale here is ripping someone off. 

How many of the old CF crew even trade anything any more?  We all know where to get it and we do.  There are only 56 new threads in the CF trading room since the first of the year, there are 342 here in the TSBC in the last 30 days.  By your count how many of those people are "large scale cons?"  Why aren't they on the scumbags list? 

[quote author=Fuente Fan link=topic=745.msg65616#msg65616 date=1326740541]
But you didn't have to worry about who you were dealing with.[quote]

This version of the site has been here now for five years.  I have owned this site since early 2000, and nothing about the way it is run has ever changed.  You joined CF in 1998, so you had about 2 yrs of DannyM's 14 years ago, since then is has been Wade's so the good old days must have been a very short period of time. 

You also have a very selective memory of the history of cons at CF.  Going back lets see:

Bruce, who'd have called that one 5 yrs ago?

Then there was Boot, Terbacky, Corona Gorda, Dr Toker,  Jose, or Frank/ljmarco and many more.  In case you haven't counted lately there are over 100 names on the scumbags list.  How many of those guys are there for actions at CF?  If you didn't worry about who you were dealing with you might just have gotten ripped off.

Anyone who doesn't know you have issues with the way I run this site has not taken the time to read your constant postings.  I don't think it is an overstatement to call it venom, and it is a testament to the moderation policy here that you haven't even been warned for your actions and posts outside of he TSBC. 

[Fuente Fan]

Don't play dumb Wade.  The TL con was one of the biggest pulled off on cigar boards in a long time and it went down here!  Don't play that, "What "large scale cons" are you talking about?"  That was a BS answer.  Are you going to say that there has not been any other people running scams here on any level?  No one here has been ripped off?  Don't make me laugh.  You know it has been like the Wild West at times.  What about the messages you have sent me saying you just want people to work it out themselves?  Now you are going to act like you don't know anything about it?  And your term "ripping people off" can cover a lot of things.  Anything from theft, sending poor product, or even gouging (which is subjective).

You second point was the number of deals that go on here vrs CF.  CF was never designed for deals.  It allowed trades, but the purpose of the board was not for that.  That is why Danny jumped out and started this board.  Now you want to compare numbers of trades?  Let' compare how many Fords are on the road compared to bikes.  It's not even close to apples and oranges.  Defensive comments at best.

[WadeFillingame]

[quote author=Fuente Fan link=topic=745.msg65997#msg65997 date=1327497402]
Don't play dumb Wade.  The TL con was one of the biggest pulled off on cigar boards in a long time and it went down here!  Don't play that, "What "large scale cons" are you talking about?"  That was a BS answer.  Are you going to say that there has not been any other people running scams here on any level?  No one here has been ripped off?  Don't make me laugh.  You know it has been like the Wild West at times.  What about the messages you have sent me saying you just want people to work it out themselves?  Now you are going to act like you don't know anything about it?  And your term "ripping people off" can cover a lot of things.  Anything from theft, sending poor product, or even gouging (which is subjective).
[/quote]

I'm not playing dumb, you are the one are making a general statement that this site is rife with scams, but you provide not single instance. You imply that it happens all the time with the intent that people will infer that TL type scams are perpetuated every day.    Sure it was a big scam, bigger than Corona Gorda? I doubt we'll ever know. As for the size of the scam, I don't think it matters to the person who gets scammed what size it is, they are out something.  The point that you refuse to get is that this is the internet, it can be anonymous and because of that there are people who will take advantage, if you don't take the steps to protect yourself then shame on you, but I'm never going to do it for you. 

You want a site with an active oversight to ensure that everything is right with the world, then go somewhere else.  This is not that place.  As for my role, I've never changed it, [color=red]I do not get involved in trades[/color].  End of discussion. 

Even if I had the desire or the time I wouldn't do it.  Maybe you remember a member at CF who had his computer seized for trading in Cuban cigars?  If you don't then you need to ask around, it happened.

As for the "wild west", I'm not sure what that means.  It seems to be a term that some of you guys over at CF coined and you use it in an obviously derisive manner.  If that's your view I'm OK with it, I can't please everyone.  Despite that view of this place, according to your traders comments you have conducted at least one trade here in the last month and three since the TL mess went public.  I guess the streets here aren't that dangerous.

The point is that I know that I don't run the place the way you want it run, and you can type till your fingers bleed and it is never going to change. 

[quote author=Fuente Fan link=topic=745.msg65997#msg65997 date=1327497402]You second point was the number of deals that go on here vrs CF.  CF was never designed for deals.  It allowed trades, but the purpose of the board was not for that.  That is why Danny jumped out and started this board.  Now you want to compare numbers of trades?  Let' compare how many Fords are on the road compared to bikes.  It's not even close to apples and oranges.  Defensive comments at best.[/quote]

You make my point, it's not defensive, it is stating fact.  This is not CF, and this is not the same internet community that it was in 1999.  CF is no longer even the most active cigar board on the web.

[Fuente Fan]

"Sure it was a big scam, bigger than Corona Gorda?"  Come on Wade, you have to be kidding.  The GC deal was not just for cigars.  I am comparing cigar scams and the TL issue was off the charts.  They are still adding up the numbers, but it will be 6 figures.  Then you make another general statement about scams all the time on the internet.  We are ONLY talking cigar scams, stay focused here.  You can downplay this all you want, it was a record breaker.  You have repeated all the time you will not get involved.  No one is saying anything about that.  What we are saying is this kind of atmosphere here is open to breading scams.  A simple point.  Don't be so defensive.  Te facts are what you said: you don't get involved in the sales - work it out yourself, don't post anything negative anywhere but in the BZ or get suspended (this also helps hide the scammers) (not everyone goes to the BZ), tons of new people with no trading backround, and more.  Many of us are smarter that that and question people that seem off.  It does not change the fact that this is open ground for scammers.  If you are not smart and doing your homework you can get ripped off.  Just saying.

[WadeFillingame]

[quote author=Fuente Fan link=topic=745.msg66007#msg66007 date=1327504860]
"Sure it was a big scam, bigger than Corona Gorda?"  Come on Wade, you have to be kidding.  The GC deal was not just for cigars.  I am comparing cigar scams and the TL issue was off the charts.  They are still adding up the numbers, but it will be 6 figures.  Then you make another general statement about scams all the time on the internet.  We are ONLY talking cigar scams, stay focused here.  [/quote]

No, you are only talking about cigar scams. The point I'm making is that scams are not new, and whether it is just cigars or not it is still scamming, someone got taken, the result is the same, someone is out $$. 


[quote author=Fuente Fan link=topic=745.msg66007#msg66007 date=1327504860]
You can downplay this all you want, it was a record breaker.  You have repeated all the time you will not get involved.  No one is saying anything about that.  What we are saying is this kind of atmosphere here is open to breading scams.  A simple point.  Don't be so defensive.  [/quote]

I'm not down playing it, but you are still not addressing your original . [i]"There were none of these large scale cons going on then."[/i] comment.  About that I am being defensive of this site and its users.  That is a broad generalization that states[i] "these cons"[/i] in the plural and begs the inference that there are many large scale cons going on here and that is just not the case.  Cons are not new on the web ([i]see my point above[/i]), TL may have gotten to more people than anyone previously but he used the exact same process that every purveyor of fakes has in the past.  Based on what I read in the BZ he practically said he was getting cigars from his sisters cousins friend who was in the diplomatic corps.  After I saw what he was posting I couldn't believe people were buying that tripe.


[quote author=Fuente Fan link=topic=745.msg66007#msg66007 date=1327504860]
Te facts are what you said: you don't get involved in the sales - work it out yourself, don't post anything negative anywhere but in the BZ or get suspended (this also helps hide the scammers) (not everyone goes to the BZ), tons of new people with no trading backround, and more.  Many of us are smarter that that and question people that seem off.  It does not change the fact that this is open ground for scammers.  If you are not smart and doing your homework you can get ripped off.  Just saying.
[/quote] 

I want the community questioning those that look less than genuine.  It is the way this has always worked.  As for those who don't go look to see what is said about the people they are trading with then shame on them.  I have no sympathy for them.


As for the comments only in the BZ rules; if people could contain their outrage over pricing or personal issues the rules could be different, but they cant so they aren't, and that isn't going to change either.

The bottom line is that I don't like you coming in here and posting something that  states [u]or implies[/u] that it is a common condition of this site that people who trade here get ripped off, or that things are different now than they ever have been.  You have the same protections today that you have always had here or on CF. That protection is your own wisdom and due diligence and that of the other people using the site. The only thing that is different at OLH today is that the population here today is no longer 90% CF regulars, the community is more diverse.

[Fuente Fan]

spin it anyway you like

[stogiedude]

The only thing that is different at OLH today is that the population here today is no longer 90% CF regulars, the community is more diverse.


So very true


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