OLH policy on dealing with scumbags

[insight]

Wade, how is TL going to be treated once we inevitably determine he is using OLH to move fakes?  Is it possible to get him and other known thieves like froglicker and pembroke  banned or even IP banned?

[WadeFillingame]

I moved this off of Moki's photo thread, it doesn't belong there.

I can ban IPs, I can ban user names and emails, and in minutes they can be back with a whole new ID.  In truth all of that, even the IPs are very easy to overcome. 

Personally I think it's better to leave the persona in place.  I'll definitely not delete it, it preserves the record.  I really hate taking impotent symbolic actions, banning an IP  or a username as a punishment for someone who is a part of the online community actually makes things harder for them.  Having to explain that they are AAA on site 1 and BBB on OLH because they got banned, is a pain, or not being able to admit on site 1 that they are BBB on OLH because they don't want to get banned again is a deterent.

To a busted scammer, if he comes back he's just going to resurface with a whole new ID.  I'd rather leave the IDs in place.  It keeps the record and it many cases they continue to log in and use the ID, so everyone should know who they are.  If I've not banned the old IP there is a really good chance that if they do create a new persona they get lazy one day and use the same login that they used in the past, and hey we have a connection. 

Other than the temporary satisfaction of banning them I don't think is does anything for the community.

[Tone-NY]

So in other words you'll leave the account active and take no action? If so how will people know when they check his profile that there is or was an issue with him and his goods?

[moki]

Tangent: what was SmokinJ's name here on OLH?  I know he resurfaced as "brose" but was he here under another name?

I tried to find old sales from him a while ago, and was unable to.

[family guy]

I agree with XTR 100%. Read, Remember it and don't let this happen to you. This is the perfect thread on how a con man works.  Far too much info to be gained from this.  AS for him, who cares. A con man can only con you, if you let him.

[Ninja]

[quote author=Tone-NY link=topic=9304.msg51354#msg51354 date=1304702301]
So in other words you'll leave the account active and take no action? If so how will people know when they check his profile that there is or was an issue with him and his goods?
[/quote]

Look at his profile now. Trader comment and notes from the community are on the main profile page. A couple with links to these threads.

[insight]

Wade, I get where you are coming from.  I think if nothing else, instituting a ban lets them know that they can't continue with full impunity.  Of course guys can and will come back, but it is sort of a slap in the face when they sell to yet another noob under the account they have already scammed others with.  I like your idea of making sale threads effectively 'read only' other than the OP, but that also renders the logic here pretty ineffective.  I don't think everyone reads the battlezone, especially those who just come for BST.  I think Froglicker could sign on today, sell a grand worth of cigars "on the cheap" to guys who weren't here for the meltdown, on his known account, and take off for a few months only to do it again.  I don't disagree with your points Wade but I feel like there has got to be SOME middleground to flag these.  Maybe something as simple as a user title that denotes they are a known thief somehow (and yes I realize this would encourage them to make another account)?

[Tone-NY]

[quote author=Ninja link=topic=9304.msg51359#msg51359 date=1304702791]
Look at his profile now. Trader comment and notes from the community are on the main profile page. A couple with links to these threads.
[/quote]

Got it did not see the links on his profile earlier. So all will see the info on him.

PS: Deleting content is never the way to go! Glad that all the info will stay in place.

[insight]

Oh yeah, never let it be said I would suggest deleting content.  I think deleting threads/posts is one of the worst things a board can do (with the obvious exception of pure spam)

[WadeFillingame]

[quote author=Tone-NY link=topic=9304.msg51354#msg51354 date=1304702301]
So in other words you'll leave the account active and take no action? If so how will people know when they check his profile that there is or was an issue with him and his goods?
[/quote]

Look at the options.

1 - I ban him, he comes back with a new name and nobody is the wiser.  He posts fakes for sale, and eventually people find out.


2 - I do nothing, maybe we get #1 above, or maybe he comes back as TL and posts stuff for sale.  Maybe before buying someone does a little research and finds out the history, at least we have a chance that way. Some of the names that have been tossed out still show up, still try to defend themselves.  Isn't that better than them creating a new unknown identity?  I know it sounds wrong, but this is the internet, and anonymity can be click away, until you create the links and a reason for people to put it all together.

Personally I have no problem banning the guy, this one has been a pretty big blow up. The only other cigar board that I am a member of is CF, and I'm not planning to change that. I don't have time for them as it is. The thread over there was 200+ posts long before someone told me about it on the phone.  If I don't have time to keep up with the hottest topic of the week at CF then I'm surely not going to keep up with ABC/VYZ/TTC. I didn't even know what ICC was until this week. 

I rarely follow this stuff, I got dragged into this one.  I have no idea about the other names that [b]insight[/b] dropped in his first post, and I'm not interested in researching them.  I don't do reality TV, and I don't need to read the scripts here.  I do not want to get involved in being the trade police. 


I know that by doing nothing there are those that will say that OLH or Wade or Wade's supports scammers.  That's not true.  I recognize the extent of my ability to control what people do on the internet, w/i my own limitations. Are there going to be some bad apples out there, yes, but I did site maintenance yesterday, there are 466 threads in the TSBC that have been posted on in the last 31 days. How many of those are bad? 

I provide a classifieds page, it is free.  I don't have the resources to regulate what people do on the back end of trades.  The only thing I do is regulate how things are presented, and that does not mean if they are presented honestly.

If you are looking for OLH to protect you from scammers the reality is that I cannot do it and won't pretend that I can.

I also strive for consistency, what do I do, start a ban request hotline, hold court in the BZ and have a presentation of evidence?  Again, this one is obvious, but it's the only one that I've taken the time to follow in all the time that I've run this board.  There will be lesser blowups that will result in someone feeling aggrieved, what do I do then? 

I know the mob wants blood, but if I give it to them what does it accomplish?