The truth is Inconvenient...

[Pahsghetti]

[quote author=forgop link=topic=38092.msg160082#msg160082 date=1462689046]

And herein lies the rub. Several years ago, it was global warming. When the narrative didn't match the science, we changed it to climate change.

The narrative will always drive fhe science to achieve its expected results. There's too much money at stake to be proven otherwise.

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[/quote]

This demonstrates a clear misunderstanding regarding the funding process and scientific method as a whole. The government doesn't decide which studies to fund, other scientists make those decisions. The money is simply provided based on politically determined budget lines. If the science is weak or not reproducible then it won't be funded, or at least will not stay funded. As for changing the "narrative", that is the core of science. If a hypothesis is no longer supported by the data then it is changed, that is how we make progress. Not to mention that climate change is supported by every reputable scientific study from a number of countries with a wide variety of political leanings.

[movell]

[quote author=forgop link=topic=38092.msg160082#msg160082 date=1462689046]

And herein lies the rub. Several years ago, it was global warming. When the narrative didn't match the science, we changed it to climate change.

The narrative will always drive fhe science to achieve its expected results. There's too much money at stake to be proven otherwise.

There is no question there is money driving some research. There are corporations that control research to mislead the public into thinking their products are safe and perhaps superior. Monsanto comes to mind, roundup it turns out, is not safe to be inside humans. The pharmaceutical industry also comes to mind.
This is not the kind of fundamental, scientific research that drives discoveries that bring greater understanding of the physical world/universe.
There are bright, dedicated scientists who live to work at discovering the truth about the processes in nature we observe. It may be surprising to some that there are actually people who have no political agenda and work for the love of knowledge and solving real problems.
Then there are those whose lives revolve around the notion there is a conspiracy behind every event, every political figure, etc.. That may in fact have some merit given the amount of money donated to political campaigns. Usually money is spent to buy something. It is exceedingly rare in pure science however.
The terms, global warming and global climate change describe essentially the same thing. The difference is, climate change also encompasses the effects of global warming and is therefore a term that carries more meaning. Remember how science likes to correct itself?

[Hutch]

[quote author=Pahsghetti link=topic=38092.msg160084#msg160084 date=1462709980]
This demonstrates a clear misunderstanding regarding the funding process and scientific method as a whole. The government doesn't decide which studies to fund, other scientists make those decisions. The money is simply provided based on politically determined budget lines. If the science is weak or not reproducible then it won't be funded, or at least will not stay funded. As for changing the "narrative", that is the core of science. If a hypothesis is no longer supported by the data then it is changed, that is how we make progress. Not to mention that climate change is supported by every reputable scientific study from a number of countries with a wide variety of political leanings.
[/quote]

Correct. Climate change has been going on, in a cyclical fashion, as far back as we can measure. Nobody challenges that. The issue is that agenda driven politicians have bribed "scientists", through grant money, to support their claim that it is human caused. Follow the money and we discover political conclusions PRECEDING science. "This is what we want your study to prove...want the grant money ?"

[Hutch]

[quote author=movell link=topic=38092.msg160075#msg160075 date=1462668905]
The standard for science is the research has to be published in a reputable scientific journal and the processes have to be repeatable. If the findings and conclusions of the research cannot be repeated or better data/findings are found the theories, by the nature of the scientific process are self correcting.
At this point there hasn't been evidence that meets the criteria to show the global climate change is not happening.
There are however plenty of "wacko", often conservatively bent, people with personal perspectives that keep them from seeing/or understanding the nature of the processes and their effects.
It's not what a government says, it is what the research wrenches from the physical world. It may be helpful to steer clear of television and opinion based literature if you are searching for meaningful knowledge on a subject. There are plenty of great minds working on significant problems. Just as there is plenty of agenda driven media. Learn to sort it out.
[/quote]

Climate change is happening..... climate change has always happened...HUMAN CAUSED climate change is an agenda driven, financially supported falsehood. Learn to sort it out.

[Hutch]

[quote author=Pahsghetti link=topic=38092.msg160084#msg160084 date=1462709980]
The government doesn't decide which studies to fund, other scientists make those decisions.
[/quote]

Incorrect. Mislead. Or just a bald faced lie. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and guess mislead. Regardless...untrue.

[Pahsghetti]

[quote author=Hutch link=topic=38092.msg160088#msg160088 date=1462717975]
Incorrect. Mislead. Or just a bald faced lie. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and guess mislead. Regardless...untrue.
[/quote]

Would you like to back that up? Granting agencies employ institutional review boards made up of scientists that determine the scientific merit of proposed grants. The source of funding comes from a governmental appropriated budget, a "slush fund" if you will. What studies those monies go to is up to the granting agency. The government can set up a specific fund for a particular scientific area of study but compared to the operating budget of the NIH, NASA etc, that is small potatoes. In the U.S., this is how the system works. I know because I am a researcher and have spent the past 10 years operating within this system.

[Pole Lock]

[quote author=Hutch link=topic=38092.msg160087#msg160087 date=1462717494]
Climate change is happening..... climate change has always happened...HUMAN CAUSED climate change is an agenda driven, financially supported falsehood. Learn to sort it out.
[/quote]

Alright - I'm calling your half-baked bluff. Post here the source of a peer-reviewed meteorological study (which reproduces the results of a previous study) which "PROVES" human-caused/accelerated climate change is a falsehood. And please don't include something from the Drudge Report or Alex Jones.

[movell]

[quote author=Hutch link=topic=38092.msg160087#msg160087 date=1462717494]
Climate change is happening..... climate change has always happened...HUMAN CAUSED climate change is an agenda driven, financially supported falsehood. Learn to sort it out.
[/quote]

Global climate changes have been in play throughout geologic history. The research indicates the rate of change is being exacerbated by the rising concentrations of greenhouse gases some from man, others from the effects of climate change and maybe even cow farts. The issue one might keep in mind is the  frame of geologic time over which these changes occur is vast. Our human existence hardly shows on that scale. However, we are seeing a rate acceleration that is attributable to these greenhouse gasses so our lifespans as well as our kids and grand kids may see significant undesirable effects.
Business has always found ways to make money. Carbon trading for instance is in play. The oil industry, in this cycle, has crushed itself, "drill baby, drill". Coal is at the mercy of global economics, china isn't an eternal golden egg.
Perhaps the agenda is quality of life for humans, rare as that is.
It is a complex realm, sorting it out is no mean task.

[burnem]

Good points movell and Pahsgetti. Don't really have the background to properly discuss the issue though I done a bit of research. Oh, then there's the fact that I don't care to waste my time debating folks who think any and everything that touches federal dollars has been corrupted or comes with a forgone conclusion. Guess putting your head in the sand is easier and allows for continuing to live in the manner one has grown accustomed.

[bpegler]

[quote author=Pole Lock link=topic=38092.msg160092#msg160092 date=1462723062]
Alright - I'm calling your half-baked bluff. Post here the source of a peer-reviewed meteorological study (which reproduces the results of a previous study) which "PROVES" human-caused/accelerated climate change is a falsehood. And please don't include something from the Drudge Report or Alex Jones.
[/quote]
Perhaps you misunderstand where the burden of proof lies in an argument?
I believe that you are making an "argument from ignorance", or, perhaps...

Russell's teapot.