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[quote author=jasdav16 link=topic=8780.msg47634#msg47634 date=1302483339]
I can't say I agreed with your other post but it was at least level-headed and mostly objective.  I'm not sure exactly what the dig you're making here about paying for the hobby is all about.  I know lots of people who don't smoke and somehow I never hear about them needing to sell their stuff all the time.  It seems like the community of cigar smokers must have the worst luck in the cosmos or something that all these bad things keep happening to people who just happen to have thousands of dollars tied up in cigars they can conveniently sell for as much (or usually more) than they paid for them.  

Just my 2 cents...I totally support folks asking whatever the hell they want for their stuff, as long as they understand someone else is going to disagree.
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I'll be clear about what my frustration is. Every time someone who has invested their time and money in something and enhances my participation in the hobby because of their foresight, I am grateful to have received a wonderful gift, whether or not I've had to pay for it.  But for them (and I am not one of them), there would be no hobby.  To attack their efforts to have the brotherhood give back to them in bad times the way that they have given to it is not cool at all.

Unless they did what they do, all of the vintage sticks, aged cigars, and holy grails would be sitting in London being auctioned off to Hong Kong and you would never have the opportunity to try anything special.

[quote author=ewipper link=topic=8780.msg47639#msg47639 date=1302484772]Unless they did what they do, all of the vintage sticks, aged cigars, and holy grails would be sitting in London being auctioned off to Hong Kong and you would never have the opportunity to try anything special.[/quote]

Sad, but true.  :'(

Moe, Jas and others who agree with you.  About 5 years ago I would have done nothing but agree with you.  But knowing what I know now I have to totally agree with Ewipper.  He isn't talking to retail sales, but towards unrealistic assumptions that a cigars price is only based on its once listed msrp or some such price.



Ps.  Robbie, love the response.  :rotf:

I heard it put best as follows:

"It's not 'what did I pay for the cigars', but 'what would it cost, right now, to put them back in my collection.'"

If I bought a box of 70's RyJ Coronas at $450 2 years ago and felt like selling them off now, say I wanted them back the next day (assuming I could even find someone willing to sell them), how much would I have to drop to make that occur?  That's fair market value.

Now, with that said, I don't sell boxes of cigars.  Ever.  I may throw together a sampler or something, but selling shit is too much work... there's too much of a tightrope between the perceptions of "fair" and "brotherhood".  Take sales cigars for example.  Punch RS12's were had for $45 a box.  To me, because I enjoy them, they are worth much more than that.  I'd kinda feel like a dick charging $150 or more a box, but it'd hurt me to sell them for $45 a box... what's more, if I get seller's remorse wanted to replace that box, there's pretty much zero chance that I'll get them for $45 from anyone else.  Therefore I will keep them, age them and smoke them... that's what coolers are made for, right...  ;)

[quote]I heard it put best as follows:

"It's not 'what did I pay for the cigars', but 'what would it cost, right now, to put them back in my collection.'"

If I bought a box of 70's RyJ Coronas at $450 2 years ago and felt like selling them off now, say I wanted them back the next day (assuming I could even find someone willing to sell them), how much would I have to drop to make that occur?  That's fair market value.

Now, with that said, I don't sell boxes of cigars.  Ever.  I may throw together a sampler or something, but selling shit is too much work... there's too much of a tightrope between the perceptions of "fair" and "brotherhood".  Take sales cigars for example.  Punch RS12's were had for $45 a box.  To me, because I enjoy them, they are worth much more than that.  I'd kinda feel like a dick charging $150 or more a box, but it'd hurt me to sell them for $45 a box... what's more, if I get seller's remorse wanted to replace that box, there's pretty much zero chance that I'll get them for $45 from anyone else.  Therefore I will keep them, age them and smoke them... that's what coolers are made for, right...  [/quote] I couldn't DISAGREE more...
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coolers are for iceing down BEER!

:smiley-cool:  :smiley-cool:  :smiley-cool:  :smiley-cool:  :smiley-cool:

Awe, c'mon, a little levity in the BZ never hurt anybody!  ;D

I guess here is what gets me fired up.  I order a ton of cigars.  I order boxes of them and then usually sell of fivers/ten packs for my cost.  It gives me the opportunity to buy 10 or 20 cigars at the "box price" and also gives other people the opportunuity to buy fivers/ten packs at great prices.  Seems all good.  Problem is that I received 22 letters in the Chicago confiscations.  Any of the guys that I sold cigars to at my cost get those letters?  Then I have guys bitching at me that I should donate a portion of my sales to this site (which I do).  So I say, I should raise my priices to accomodate the risk as well as the donation fees.  OOPS, now I am a gouger because I'm selling a five pack of Siglo Is for $45.00 when they only "cost me" $35.00. 

It's called supply and demand and risk and reward.  It involves every single decision we make in life.  Wheether to drive 10 miles over the speed limit to get somewhere on time or whether it's to invest in that certain stock that you've gotten a tip on.  That's America baby-free market system.  There is a reason why Wade put a "No comment on price" policy into play in the sale room.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=8780.msg47678#msg47678 date=1302531452]
I guess here is what gets me fired up.  I order a ton of cigars.  I order boxes of them and then usually sell of fivers/ten packs for my cost.  It gives me the opportunity to buy 10 or 20 cigars at the "box price" and also gives other people the opportunuity to buy fivers/ten packs at great prices.  Seems all good.  Problem is that I received 22 letters in the Chicago confiscations.  Any of the guys that I sold cigars to at my cost get those letters?  Then I have guys bitching at me that I should donate a portion of my sales to this site (which I do).  So I say, I should raise my priices to accomodate the risk as well as the donation fees.  OOPS, now I am a gouger because I'm selling a five pack of Siglo Is for $45.00 when they only "cost me" $35.00. 

It's called supply and demand and risk and reward.  It involves every single decision we make in life.  Wheether to drive 10 miles over the speed limit to get somewhere on time or whether it's to invest in that certain stock that you've gotten a tip on.  That's America baby-free market system.  There is a reason why Wade put a "No comment on price" policy into play in the sale room.
[/quote]
:clap:

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=8780.msg47678#msg47678 date=1302531452]
I guess here is what gets me fired up.  I order a ton of cigars.  I order boxes of them and then usually sell of fivers/ten packs for my cost.  It gives me the opportunity to buy 10 or 20 cigars at the "box price" and also gives other people the opportunuity to buy fivers/ten packs at great prices.  Seems all good.  Problem is that I received 22 letters in the Chicago confiscations.  Any of the guys that I sold cigars to at my cost get those letters?  Then I have guys bitching at me that I should donate a portion of my sales to this site (which I do).  So I say, I should raise my priices to accomodate the risk as well as the donation fees.  OOPS, now I am a gouger because I'm selling a five pack of Siglo Is for $45.00 when they only "cost me" $35.00. 

It's called supply and demand and risk and reward.  It involves every single decision we make in life.  Wheether to drive 10 miles over the speed limit to get somewhere on time or whether it's to invest in that certain stock that you've gotten a tip on.  That's America baby-free market system.  There is a reason why Wade put a "No comment on price" policy into play in the sale room.
[/quote]

Extemely well said!

[quote author=JDtexan link=topic=8780.msg47685#msg47685 date=1302536167]
Extemely well said!
[/quote]

X2...don't sell alot, but as a buyer I take into consideration these types of risks...sometimes I think people overlook this area.

I have just never understood all of the commenting on price. If there is no interest in the price being asked then the seller will pull the sale or reduce the price.

I understand the brotherhood thing to a point but we are all grown ups here. We can all spend 10 minutes to do a little research and decide if the price is something we are willing to pay.