Onlinehumidor.com

[quote author=jb link=topic=9304.msg51403#msg51403 date=1304712418]
Someone designed the spinning quarter, how bout leaving his account and adding a flashing red SCAMMER under name?  Maybe then add a link to the scumbag page in his sig tag?  That way anyone who sees one of his posts will know?

[/quote]

I like that Idea. That way if he decides to no longer sell under that name and we find a new member pushing high end CCs we will have a pretty good it is TL, etc

[quote]Someone designed the spinning quarter, how bout leaving his account and adding a flashing red SCAMMER under name?  Maybe then add a link to the scumbag page in his sig tag?  That way anyone who sees one of his posts will know?[/quote]
Or how about just bringing back Karma Wade?

[quote author=Knuck42 link=topic=9304.msg51649#msg51649 date=1304902009]
Or how about just bringing back Karma Wade?
[/quote]

Karma was too much of a joke, people got into bad karma.

For a few of the same reasons that I'm not banning accts I'm not branding them with a scarlet letter either.  The information is here, people have to have enough common sense and motivation to look. 

[quote author=XTR link=topic=9304.msg51660#msg51660 date=1304908287]
Karma was too much of a joke, people got into bad karma.

For a few of the same reasons that I'm not banning accts I'm not branding them with a scarlet letter either.  The information is here, people have to have enough common sense and motivation to look. 
[/quote]

I completely agree Wade. The fact that all is out in the open is all we need. We can take it from here.

[quote author=XTR link=topic=9304.msg51660#msg51660 date=1304908287]
Karma was too much of a joke, people got into bad karma.

For a few of the same reasons that I'm not banning accts I'm not branding them with a scarlet letter either.  The information is here, people have to have enough common sense and motivation to look. 
[/quote]

The scarlet letter was a joke, you know.

I just kinda liked the Karma idea 'cause it reminded me of a few years ago when this place was quite different.

With respect to Wade's decision and other members' opinion, I have a different take on this. I suggest that members who engage in selling fakes to be banned.

It takes little efforts to create a new account, but it will take a lot more efforts to obtain a new IP address -static IP addresses are not cheap. But most importantly, if they come back with a new identity, they will have no feedback, no history, no friends, and there will be no one to vouch for them.

Personally, when I engage in a trade with someone I don't know, I always check his history, ask for known references, or ask him to send his end first. In one case, I had to create an account on another forum to check on that member history.

There will always be people who take risks with there money, and buy high end and rare cigars from questionable sources. In this case, there is nothing anyone can do for them, except let them get burned once or twice. Some people learn only by experience.

Leaving the questionable accounts active will make new members vulnerable. If someone is unaware of what is going on with TL, and if TL posts some htf cigars for sale, some people may commit to buy before checking his history. And, why should they? TL has over 250 posts, a benefactor, the offered cigars are htf or on good price, and someone may snatch them in a seconds. We all know how compulsive and vulnerable we are when it comes to htf or good priced stuff.

It makes no sense to me to let TL account active any longer. That is like a setup to new or less informed members. If you decide on keeping his account active, at least change his title from "Benefactor Hermosa" to "Be aware, he sells fake cigars" or something like that.

[quote author=JohnE1000 link=topic=9304.msg51702#msg51702 date=1304948029]
It takes little efforts to create a new account, but it will take a lot more efforts to obtain a new IP address -static IP addresses are not cheap.
[/quote]

Not to totally geek out here, but dynamic IPs can be released and renewed quite simply and proxy servers are everywhere.

[quote author=JohnE1000 link=topic=9304.msg51702#msg51702 date=1304948029]
But most importantly, if they come back with a new identity, they will have no feedback, no history, no friends, and there will be no one to vouch for them.
[/quote]

TL did it once... this dude popped up from nowhere, offered a bunch of crazy stuff in obscene quantities and made, like, 10k in 6 months.

[quote author=JohnE1000 link=topic=9304.msg51702#msg51702 date=1304948029]
Leaving the questionable accounts active will make new members vulnerable. If someone is unaware of what is going on with TL, and if TL posts some htf cigars for sale, some people may commit to buy before checking his history. And, why should they? TL has over 250 posts, a benefactor, the offered cigars are htf or on good price, and someone may snatch them in a seconds. We all know how compulsive and vulnerable we are when it comes to htf or good priced stuff.

[/quote]

This is a good point, considering that no one can post in a sales thread now.  If he posted up a sale, people who haven't looked in the BZ could potentially get taken.

[quote author=JohnE1000 link=topic=9304.msg51702#msg51702 date=1304948029]
With respect to Wade's decision and other members' opinion, I have a different take on this. I suggest that members who engage in selling fakes to be banned.

[/quote]

This is the meat of your post, the rest are things that I think are supporting arguments so I'll address this one.

This is not open for discussion, at least in that you will not get me to change my policy.  You can all discuss it and decide that I'm not doing it right, but that's your option, and unlike most other boards you won't get your posts deleted. 

I do not wish to get involved in the evaluation of "evidence".  I've repeated my position on trades/sales many times; what two people do or don't do to or with each other is not my concern.  I'm not getting into it.    I want this site to have a simple non-restrictive rule set.  I want people to know what the rules are and what is and is not OK to do here.  I don't want to get involved in shades of gray discussions, esp. regarding the quality of products sold here and it seems to me that I don't want to get involved in the quality of the [u]contraband[/u] you may or may not have purchased here.

The bottom line is that this is an unregulated environment and I don't want anyone to feel differently.  If anyone is uncomfortable with that you may want to stick to established shops, or do your trades in places that have more controls.  I'm not telling anyone to leave; I'm not telling anyone not to use this board, in fact the whole point of this is that I'm not inflicting my opinions on anyone about much of anything.

[quote author=XTR link=topic=9304.msg51660#msg51660 date=1304908287]
Karma was too much of a joke, people got into bad karma.

For a few of the same reasons that I'm not banning accts I'm not branding them with a scarlet letter either.  The information is here, people have to have enough common sense and motivation to look. 
[/quote]

For what it's worth, a number (most?) of the people instrumental in outing Triple Ligero do not regularly participate here on OLH.

It's worthy of consideration how long these sales would continue bolstered by the positive comments of folks who traded with him here.  The real danger is to people who are new to the hobby.

I'm not sure this is really an example of the board working as it should, as you mentioned earlier.