Onlinehumidor.com

[quote author=chenvt link=topic=9253.msg50831#msg50831 date=1304601169]
Is CubanLover selling fakes?  Unsure

Is he the driver of the whaaaaambulance?  Yup
[/quote]

I would like to see what he has to say about ICC now.

CubanLover didn't say he knows special sources or has inside sources on the Island. He said he won the cigars. He also claimed to have possessed and sold a box of BHKs from February 2010 here at OLH. Only no one ever saw it, probably for the obvious reason that it doesn't exist.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to come to his defense, except as a joke. And in the current climate here, that jokes not so funny.

Mike, I think it's Mike, I have nothing but respect for you.  I've been on various boards for almost as long as you have and have seen you provide info and help to hundreds of people.  Your knowledge has always been an asset.

However, I have to respectfully disagree with you on this topic.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=9253.msg50826#msg50826 date=1304600481]
This place is great but one of the problems is that the stuff that has gone on here in the BZ as of late would never be allowed there or at most of the other BBs around.  Some may say this is good.  I disagree.
[/quote]

I think the TL thread is a perfect example of how things should happen.  It helps all of us when con men are uncovered and the only way to do that is for open discussion.  If threads like the TL discussion weren't allowed (and they aren't at various other boards, which is a shame), TL would still be duping people.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=9253.msg50826#msg50826 date=1304600481]
That said, does anyone here remember the issue a few years ago with Mo/Mitchell and the 1996 Especialidads???  This was broken over at CW and it caused a great deal of embarrassment for the purveyor of vintage cigars to be found to have misrepresented to the public the provenance as well as the authenticity of these "special release" cigars.  This issue and it's fallout got me permanently banned from cA [b]because I'd gone after the vendor publicly for his misrepresentations and fraud.[/b]
[/quote]

I do remember that and you handled it exactly how it should have been handled.  But isn't that the same thing as what is happening in the Battle Zone with TL (and potentially others)?  How can it be acceptable for you to go after someone publicly but not someone else?

I guess my point is that threads like the TL thread, and yours about Mitchell years ago, are what helps to keep fake or misrepresented cigars from getting passed around, and around, and around.

And again, I say all of this with the utmost respect for you.  I just have a difference of opinion (or maybe I misinterpreted what you said).  Either way, I'd share a smoke with you any day.

It is not the TL thread that I object to. That was, in it's inception, exactly what the BZ is for. The name calling, insults and out and out trolling that went on in that post and in others recently is what I object to.  We need to educate people on what is going on. That can be done civilly.  That was the point of my thread here Mike.  Take care and appreciate your response.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=9253.msg50826#msg50826 date=1304600481]

One of the problems here is that many/most of the people here really don't have the experience that to people at the older boards have.  For example, the idea that someone could actually buy Behikes for $225.00 seemd outlandish UNTIL you find out that there are "special sites" for "special people" where these prices are real.  There are ertain people who have very good relationships with certain vendors and get things at very good prices that cannot be found by the general public.  Stuff that I've seen over the past 14 years would astound many of you.  For those who don't have a clue they yell fake.  For those in the know, they just quietly wish they could have had the same deal.  Remember it's Cuba.

[/quote]

I would love to know some of these sites. Please share. If they only offer to secial people, that is cool and I respect that, but that does not mean we can't know who they are. Oh, and you say there are special sites, but then you say anything is possible in Cuba? So are you arguing someone is buying them on the island or from an internet site? If you it is from an internet site that said they got it in Cuba, then why do you assume: a) they are being straight with you 2) they didn't buy fakes knowingly/unknowingly while on the island, as we discussed on the TL thread.

If you are going to say that the stores in Havana give a special discount to "special" people, then nope does not happen like that. Prices are government run, products are inventories, receipts are numbered and tracked, and this is NOT a free market economy where managers and business owners have leway with prices.

Now you can get the stuff through the backdoor, but now you are opening yourself up to more scams as discussed on the TL thread. And remember factory cigars are rarely banded for reasons I have discussed numerous times. In this day and age, if someone is telling you this box came from the factory, banded and all, you must be very suspicious.

And selling for $225 does not pass the smell test. And this guy says he won them in a raffle, and did not mention the special access you describe.

Talking about this stuff is important and necessary. Because the love in crowds at many other boards can't deal with some of the real life issues, no one deals with what is real, and the con men can come and exploit this. They know that on many of these sites, if they give a cigar and talk nice, everyone will flock to them, and if anyone questions them, the questioner will be labeled an antagonist.

BTW, I am not attacking here, but you sound a lot like TL in your last 2 sentences.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=9253.msg50826#msg50826 date=1304600481]

Wow-a vendor who gets stuff from the back door yet other people cannot???  It's all possible boys and girls. 

[/quote]

No one is saying people can't get stuff from the back door. That is not the point. The point is provenance, and that scams in Havana can an do happen, especially to people that want to believe so bad they are finding a super deal. And scams happen outside havana too. And applying logic and basic economic principles, if something does not seem right, then it probaby isn't.

But lack of real communication enables con men, it does not deter them.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=9253.msg50872#msg50872 date=1304605998]
It is not the TL thread that I object to. That was, in it's inception, exactly what the BZ is for. The name calling, insults and out and out trolling that went on in that post and in others recently is what I object to.  We need to educate people on what is going on. That can be done civilly.  That was the point of my thread here Mike.  Take care and appreciate your response.
[/quote]

Come on man, it really wasn't that bad. I think many people may need to lighten up a bit.  8)

Ninja- I do not disagree with anything you said. My point is that while the TL thing brought about a great result it could have been done with out the name calling and insults. Information = power. We need to disseminate info in a civil manner. That way people read it and understand it's import and that it is just not someone trying to extract a vendetta. Part of out hobby is trust. If you don't know the provenance then you are just as guilty of peddling fakes as the purveyor of the fakes was originally.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=9253.msg50826#msg50826 date=1304600481]
My point is that I have no idea whether CubanLover ispeddling fakes because I have seen the availability of the cigars he sold at that price.  [/quote]

I am not saying this is what is happening, but there is a really good change that the sticks you are alluding to above are not real either.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=9253.msg50881#msg50881 date=1304607147]
Ninja- I do not disagree with anything you said. My point is that while the TL thing brought about a great result it could have been done with out the name calling and insults. Information = power. We need to disseminate info in a civil manner. That way people read it and understand it's import and that it is just not someone trying to extract a vendetta. Part of out hobby is trust. If you don't know the provenance then you are just as guilty of peddling fakes as the purveyor of the fakes was originally.
[/quote]

Dude, I don't know you, but mu mike has respect for you and that goes a long way in my book.  But come one, this post is a bit hypocritical seeing the way you went after FG with threats of posting real world personal info, and the whole "wait and see, there is more to come" stuff.  You have personally contributed to the venom being spewed on this site and then you have the nerve to comment on the TL thread???? That one was tame compared to your actions. People like you are the reason I left the cigar BB world for 8 years. Someone posted personal info about me, and it made me sick.

[quote author=mcgoospot link=topic=9253.msg50881#msg50881 date=1304607147]
Ninja- I do not disagree with anything you said. My point is that while the TL thing brought about a great result it could have been done with out the name calling and insults. Information = power. We need to disseminate info in a civil manner. That way people read it and understand it's import and that it is just not someone trying to extract a vendetta. Part of out hobby is trust. If you don't know the provenance then you are just as guilty of peddling fakes as the purveyor of the fakes was originally.
[/quote]

I hear ya, but you are always going to have some of that. And I get concerned when a person say "He is a scam artist..these are fake and he knows it" and then somone else says "stop calling him names." That to me is not calling names. It is using short efficient words to get a persons believe across.

Now some people get worked up and go over the top, and I can see some people not liking that. And one can ignore shit stirrers. I guess I just don't think it is that bad in general.