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Insight has my proof of sending 226.00 to the guy Smelvis hooked me up with.
What Dave needs to do is admit he knew the guy was of dubious trade character,
he had no trade record, but i blindly went with Daves lead.
I was supposed to keep the check till Insight finished his investigation, when
Dave said he changed his mind and didnt want to wait, then the check got cashed,
he didnt have any faith in the process.
I know i sent Smelvis boxes of htg Opus at my cost, cigars only found at Casa Fuente
or at an Event.
Our original agreement was i keep the check till Insight makes his call,
when Dave went back on his word all bets were off, now he can tell any number
different spins, the truth is simple. And all the name calling and defamation of character
is  a sign of lack of character on Daves part.
This has nothing to do with the troops,
this is between me and you, dont be threatening me with [quoting you] "the troops want to know who did this to you".

Put it to rest Dave, u got your check back, Take a chill pill
Avi is my Hebrew name, Art is my English name,
U didnt even know i was hebrew.

O yeah, i almost forgot, its gets a little difficult to keep a
full time job for me as i have 32 rods and screws and pins and wires
and plates keeping one side of my body together, OK Dave?
Thanx for lookin out for  a brother.
Avi

This isnt the 1st time u started a fight with someone,
u got thrown out of Puff.com, somehow u were reinstated, and i
took your side.

I'm confused... why would he owe you money at all?  He told you about something for sale (from an individual... not someone he works for or anything).  You, being the buyer, would then be required to do your due diligence before spending your money.  There's no one responsible for that other than you (the buyer) and the guy you actually sent your money to.


I don't know you or Dave, and I'm not trying to stir shit, I'm just asking as the concept of him giving/owing you anything in this scenario baffles me.  Is there something more than that (that's relevant)?

[quote author=DBall link=topic=6545.msg34760#msg34760 date=1292861356]
I'm confused... why would he owe you money at all?  He told you about something for sale (from an individual... not someone he works for or anything).  You, being the buyer, would then be required to do your due diligence before spending your money.  There's no one responsible for that other than you (the buyer) and the guy you actually sent your money to.


I don't know you or Dave, and I'm not trying to stir shit, I'm just asking as the concept of him giving/owing you anything in this scenario baffles me.  Is there something more than that (that's relevant)?
[/quote]

2nd that, was about to post the same thing. It appears Avioli requested the information for the buyer from Smelvis, Smelvis provided it, after that its Aviolis responsibility to do his due diligence. Smelvis should have been done with it after that, definitely shouldn't have sent him any money whether he got ripped off or not. Glad you got your money back Smelvis, and it appears Avioli got what was coming to him after trying to rip you off.

Thanks he is a crook and tried to con me on my soft side and it almost worked,

This has got to be one of the most screwed up things I have seen with cigars in a long time.  I'm not sure which of you guys is worse.  A couple of things that make no sense to me.

1) Exactly how is Avi supposed to prove he sent cash?  How would a person have a record of that?

2) Why would you send cash through the mail Avi.  I learned this when I was a kid and that was a long time ago!

3) I don't understand how smelvis is on the hook for a deal gone bad.  Now if he was hawking for the bum selling, that would change things.  But it sounds like Avi approached Smelvis to get hooked up with the cheat.  So how would that make it his responsibility for the deal?  When I am trading I take it on myself to be sure of the other person.  Also if I don't know the other person I don't trade for more than I am able to lose.

4) Smelvis, don't take this the wrong way, but what does contributing to the troops have anything to do with this?  While it is a very noble and kind thing to do, it really has nothing to do with this unless you like patting yourself on the back.

I think you both are good guys who got mixed up in something bad.  I don't think Avi is a crook and cheat.  I do think he did something stupid here and is looking for someone to share in his loss.  That person has become you.  I may be way off base here.  Just the feelings I get as I read all this crap.  I hope things get worked out for both of you.  The odd part to me is the fact no one is talking about the person who ripped off the money?

Jim-
You can bet I am going to do some more surrounding this.  The guy who ripped everyone off is going on the list, I gave him an out and he didn't take it.  If he shows up later with some proof he has been in a quarantine or something then maybe we will have something to discuss. 

Regarding the clusterfuck fiasco in this thread....I am still looking over everything and trying to wrap my mind around it. 

[quote author=Vegan702 link=topic=6545.msg34761#msg34761 date=1292861775]
2nd that, was about to post the same thing. It appears Avioli requested the information for the buyer from Smelvis, Smelvis provided it, after that its Aviolis responsibility to do his due diligence. Smelvis should have been done with it after that, definitely shouldn't have sent him any money whether he got ripped off or not. Glad you got your money back Smelvis, and it appears Avioli got what was coming to him after trying to rip you off.
[/quote]

Dave did not provide any info on the seller, he wouldnt tell me where to find the sale thread, he said he would get banned if he told me that. How weird does this sound. So he said Parafumar is at Puff.com, where all my xchanges with him have been sent to Insight.
The seller had zero trade comments at Puff, but nothing bad, Dave gave me no indication
there were any red flags on this guy, but there was, at Cigarpass.com where i found the sale thread after the the theft had occured, and where all the fog`s over there were saying dont buy from Parafumar[Richard Kernia] because he`s not active, i wouldve listening to any warning before sending an ash to anybody with no history.

I gotta believe Dave set me up, and i fell for it. After i was a good friend for him.

Ok... Just so we are clear here: You are accusing Dave of "setting you up," meaning that he knew that the seller was going to rip you off. That is what you are saying, correct?

If so, are you suggesting that Dave profited off the deal that went bad?

Was the original deal posted on CigarPass? Or was it from a different forum?

Dave is a VERY generous guy, so I have no doubt in my mind that what you are saying is false (whether you actually believe it or not). However, instead of just saying "Dave set me up," why don't you clarify for the rest of us.