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Pretty sure we've already determined that while UBB is a relative newcomer to the game...even the enlisted help of some veterans proved that there are some questions as to the authenticity. I believe the response of "new CC buyer jitters" is just a cop out from someone who clearly hasn't read the entire thread.

At this point, the seller is clearly not willing to do anything, so whether or not they are fakes, I most certainly wouldn't want to buy from them at all knowing this is how situations are handled when even the question arises.

I feel bad for UBB, whether or not they actually are fakes, the way this was handled from the sellers point of view shows an extreme lack of class.

Heck, he could have even offered to take them back on UBBs shipping dime if he was that confident in his product. UBB would have been out the shipping cost and Hibafan would have had (in his mind) a perfectly fine box to resell.

[quote author=JoeOndish link=topic=32233.msg138087#msg138087 date=1424274925]
Pretty sure we've already determined that while UBB is a relative newcomer to the game...even the enlisted help of some veterans proved that there are some questions as to the authenticity. I believe the response of "new CC buyer jitters" is just a cop out from someone who clearly hasn't read the entire thread.

At this point, the seller is clearly not willing to do anything, so whether or not they are fakes, I most certainly wouldn't want to buy from them at all knowing this is how situations are handled when even the question arises.

I feel bad for UBB, whether or not they actually are fakes, the way this was handled from the sellers point of view shows an extreme lack of class.

Heck, he could have even offered to take them back on UBBs shipping dime if he was that confident in his product. UBB would have been out the shipping cost and Hibafan would have had (in his mind) a perfectly fine box to resell.
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After 2 months!?  If/when you receive questionable cigars from a reputable vendor, I invite you to wait 2 months and then bring up the issue to them.

I believe it's already been proven that the argument from the seller would be the same regardless of the amount of time UBB waited, whether it be a day or a year.

At this point, like I said, if the seller fully believes his sticks are legitimate, what was stopping him from offering to take them back at the buyers shipping cost and refunding the cost of the box before the original shipping.

The whole time argument is a moot point with the way the seller has handled himself.

[quote author=JoeOndish link=topic=32233.msg138090#msg138090 date=1424276836]
I believe it's already been proven that the argument from the seller would be the same regardless of the amount of time UBB waited, whether it be a day or a year.
[/quote]

The only "proof" I saw was UBB's [i]opinion[/i] that HibaFan [i]would[/i] have acted that way [i]if[/i] he had been contacted during a reasonable amount of time.  I guess we'll never know, will we?

Again, I don't know if these are fake or real and don't have an opinion without lighting one up myself, but the whole interchange seems based mostly on Catfishblue's opinion rather than anything else.

Rather redundant as I stated it numerous times but I'm not sure how you can reach any other conclusion on how Hibafan would have reacted if this was immediately brought to his attention. He was very clear that there is no way to prove any sticks in question originated from him, coupled with his insistence that he doesn't deal in fakes nor does his source.

Worth mentioning that Hibafan, in this thread, initially acknowledged that in his opinion, Cohiba's with shoddy bands and that lack a tripple cap are fake cigars (Cuban Cigar 101 I believe he called it), just not cigars from him as he knows enough to not deal in counterfeits.

Yet despite being no way to prove anything came from him, insisted that not only cigars be sent to others (after initially balking at the idea) but the rest of the whole box for the sake of full investigation.
Strikes me as odd how, if he's absolutely sure about his source, that he has changed his tune mid-stream.

Surely I can't be the only one who has noticed.

[quote author=Pole Lock link=topic=32233.msg138093#msg138093 date=1424278796]
The only "proof" I saw was UBB's [i]opinion[/i] that HibaFan [i]would[/i] have acted that way [i]if[/i] he had been contacted during a reasonable amount of time.  I guess we'll never know, will we?

Again, I don't know if these are fake or real and don't have an opinion without lighting one up myself, but the whole interchange seems based mostly on Catfishblue's opinion rather than anything else.
[/quote]

I just recently purchased a 5'er of MUO FEB 14 CoRos from a member here. When I first rec'd, I compared them with the bands from my 2008 box (sourced from Ravi). Bands looked mildly different - almost identical to what was depicted here. A slightly thicker gold band, VERY slight variations in embossing. I sent a PM asking him where his box was sourced...to which he replied they came from Ravi. No further questions from me...I was good. As everyone here knows and the rule we all commonly try to abide by...."trust your source". I trust Ravi...and I also trust Rob, so didn't need to address any further. Albeit I'd note, that all 5 of the cigars I rec'd had triple caps.  

My guess is here that the cohiba bands being compared are from different years. In which case, there may be EXTREMELY slight differences, especially when we're just comparing the thickness of the gold on the back of the label (granted I know the lack of a triple cap is also an issue here, but as others have stated, it isn't all that uncommon). My 08s are maybe, MAYBE, 1 mm (likely less) thinner than the 2014s I just rec'd. Not just around the back, but also around the COHIBA in the front.

If the cigars smoke like a Cuban, taste like a Cuban....and came from Oz, my $$ is on them being 100% legit. Especially based off what I've just seen from the 5'er I just rec'd when comparing to my 2008s.  Comparing a Siglo to a CORO is far from a valid barometer by the way. Especially from a person who admittedly doesn't "prefer" a CoRo to the Siglo line.

I'm far from an expert, but this is just an unbiased opinion from someone with no prior dealings w/ either the buyer or seller. Just trying to offer some further perspective as I too questioned these bands upon initial receipt. We can't all preach 'provenance is king' and then just throw that out the window when the gold lining on the band is the "right" thickness.

I don't disagree at all. I also agree with the sentiment of 'trust' your source (which is why I decided to buy from Steve in the firstplace). But insisting a source is infallible, like has been the case in this thread, is absurd.

[quote author=KPP link=topic=32233.msg138095#msg138095 date=1424280267]

I'm far from an expert, but this is just an unbiased opinion from someone with no prior dealings w/ either the buyer or seller. Just trying to offer some further perspective as I too questioned these bands upon initial receipt.[b] We can't all preach 'provenance is king' and then just throw that out the window when the gold lining on the band is the "right" thickness. [/b]


[/quote]

[quote author=UBB link=topic=32233.msg138096#msg138096 date=1424280647]
I don't disagree at all. I also agree with the sentiment of 'trust' your source (which is why I decided to buy from Steve in the firstplace). But insisting a source is infallible, like has been the case in this thread, is absurd.

[/quote]

Don't disagree there either. We've seen fake OPUS peddled at supposedly reliable sources as well. BUT, with you questioning the CoRos that supposedly came from OZ, and me questioning the cigars that ended up being from Ravi...it's just too much of a coincidence for BOTH of these reputable vendors to be selling fakes.

I've got no idea how to post pics here...but I can email them to someone if they'd like to post them up as I just snapped a couple.

Sources are infallible IMO. The gray area is what happens between source and buying them secondhand.  Kinda like the PGR'S we saw here a couple of months ago.

That's why your source is really only as good as the seller you buy them from on here.

[quote author=JoeOndish link=topic=32233.msg138087#msg138087 date=1424274925]
Pretty sure we've already determined that while UBB is a relative newcomer to the game...even the enlisted help of some veterans proved that there are some questions as to the authenticity. I believe the response of "new CC buyer jitters" is just a cop out from someone who clearly hasn't read the entire thread.

At this point, the seller is clearly not willing to do anything, so whether or not they are fakes, I most certainly wouldn't want to buy from them at all knowing this is how situations are handled when even the question arises.

I feel bad for UBB, whether or not they actually are fakes, the way this was handled from the sellers point of view shows an extreme lack of class.

Heck, he could have even offered to take them back on UBBs shipping dime if he was that confident in his product. UBB would have been out the shipping cost and Hibafan would have had (in his mind) a perfectly fine box to resell.
[/quote]

I've read the entire thread, and as I quoted, I see more evidence of these being real than fake.

HibaFan comes off strong, sure, but the only person who has said he wouldn't take the cigars back immediately after the buyer received them is the buyer. He could have been nicer (he has said repeatedly he has nothing against the buyer and hasn't called him anything stronger than new and under educated) but he has no responsibility 2 months after the fact to even respond to this stuff.

UBB asked who his source was, the seller responded, done deal. At this point the determination of real or fake has nothing to do with the seller.

I've had coros from Ravi that had me wondering but for the source, if I waited two months and then wanted to return them he would have told me to pound sand too.

It's silly. The cigars are fine, and the seller has no obligation to the buyer this far out regardless.