WOW, UBB you shouldn't be so defensive when asked about this man. You afterall brought it to the BZ for discussion amongst the peeps here.
<B>No, Actually Steve started this</B>
Yes and you willingly participated in the discussions... so you are just as responsible for it being there.
This question has been asked by several others as well once it was learned you smoked one. Now to try and say your opinion doesn't matter. and to try to blame some of the peeps here for that is rediculous. Blame others for what exactly.
<B> Aside from my concerns about the authenticity the only other blame I've levied against others is for not paying attention.</B>
No, you have stated that it doesn't matter what you say because people in the "UBB is pulling a scam camp" etc. That is blaming others (in advance even lol) regarding their willingness to accept the status of these sticks as fakes or not, based on your opinion of them after smoking some. In other words if a person is in "that camp" according to you, they automatically would not believe your version of events. There is no camp buddy, it is all in your head. People are just trying to find out what happened by asking questions and you are catagorizing them as friend or foe based on these questions.
You can't only discuss things that show your case in good favour and ignore all else. this whole affair has beem handled poorly. Perhaps you should have just contacted Hiba Fan directly and not have used an expert, as that seems to be where most of your problems lie.
<B> This is what I meant about the not paying attention part. All of our PRIVATE correspondence has been posted previously in this thread.</B>
I know it has been posted I have read every word of it. I was saying that perhaps if you had of cantacted Steve and talked to him in PM's without having someone else there who seemed to be more of a antagonist then anything else. And I don't mean that this was his intention, but that is how it turned out isn't it? Maybe you should have been paying more attention to the way these two were interacting with each other and just called off catfish altogether. You didn't.
you also have to remember that you waited 2 months to take this action. You had to know that this would be a problem, and perhaps a more tactful approach would be called for.
As for you not reporting what you thought of the sticks you have tried??? REALLY??? The whole point of this thread is to determine if these are fakes or are they good sticks. You being the one to question the authenticity of these should at least be willing to say what he thought of them to the same forum you brought your problems to.If not why haven't you just discussed this whole affair amongst yourself and your possie of the choosen and not include the forum?
<b> Not only did I contact Steve privately prior to this thread being created, I also contacted other members of the community including the OWNER as to how go about bringing the issues I had to light. This info has all been previously posted several times.</B>
Again, several times now, you have avoided the question and refferred to who you did contact. Who cares? The question was what did you think of the stick? Was it good or not? That is an easy question and you have avoided answering it several times. Again this does not point to proof of anything concrete about the authenticity of the sticks. It does however seem suspect that you will not state wether you liked them or not. But you made your choice there.
This tact you are taking is not helping your case, in some peoples eyes. Now I know you will attempt to turn this right back onto me like you have repeatedley done throughout this thread. Thing is no one here had any opinion on this until you brought it here, and now it appears that you don't like the way things are going so you don't want to play anymore. A determination as to the authenticity of these sticks is not what you were asked for. Just your opinion on how you liked them, and you wouldn't even answer that. Don't try to turn this onto others who have questioned your methods in this either because we are NOT against you... really, that's not it.
<B> Several members here are or will be in posssession of the ciagrs in question. I'm not playing anything, this isn't a game to me. I never wanted to drag Steve's name through the mud like this and am trying hard not to which is why I approached him privately to begin with. His response's and attitude towards my concerns were dismissive and totally arrogant IMO.</B>
I don't doubt that what you say here is the absolute truth. have you thought about it from the sellers point of view, even though you know in your own mind that you are in a position of truth and rightfulness? I mean someone buys a box of sticks off you and 2 months later (2 months!!!) the fellow contacts you and tells you he thinks you may have sold him fakes!! I think you and Steve both feel like your reputations and version of the truth in this case are above reproach, and that is why you both are having such a hard time with the issues here without it becoming personal. Bringing in catfish and his style of getting answers seems to have complicated this situation, instead of helping it as you desired. I'm sure that wasn't his intention, but it seems like he thought all he had to do was accuse Steve of selling fakes to you and Steve would simply refund your money based on Catfish's knowledge and rep??? He perhaps didn't consider that HibaFan didn't agree that the sticks were fake and that he would get his back up about being accused of such, instead of just caving and issuing a refund or whatever recourse you wanted out of this.
That is another thing. You stated that you never asked for a refund, or any kind of compensation. Then why did you seek further advice from others regarding the authenticity of these sticks? You must have wanted something? If not a refund, were you looking perhaps to extract a little revenge?
Why bring in Catfish with all his accusations if you were not trying to sully HibaFans name?
You never addressed the next section of my post. I guess you didn't want to hear from someone like me who you seemed to have placed in "the UBB is scamming camp" that they were sorry you were going through this situation. It is unfortunate and I do feel bad, because cigars are for our enjoyment, but these cigars have / will bring little enjoyment to anybody now.
You also still never answered the question about how you liked the stick? You make a lot of accusations and comments about other people on this thread about not paying attention and whatnot. How about you answer that one question without deflection of any kind?
:clap:
UBB I'll start the thread for you...please proceed
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leftCoast1963
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:30 am
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UBB
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:10 pm
Re: UBB I'll start the thread for you...please proceed
Doug, not sure why you seem so bent on engaging me in a debate. Yes I am participating in this thread as I was left with little choice. I tried to engage Steve privately before this thread was even created. He wanted no part of it and started it himself. I'm not saying we could have figured something out in privately but we'll never know now.
As for why am I participating in this thread when I am asking for nothing in return? Isn't that what B/SOTL do? If there is a potential bad trader in the community isn't it beneficial to everyone to know? It's been like that in every cigar based group I've ever participated in.
As for Dustin. No idea why you or Steve or anyone else may or may not have problem with him. I don't know him any better than I know Fred. I do know he is an Admin of a cigar group that I'm a member of along with 3500 others. I also know he has more experience with Cuban cigars than I do. I have no reason to think his opinion is less valid than any of the people here regardless of his posting style. Unlike some of you guys, I'm not a member of FOH so I couldn't enlist some of the members there for help.
I apologize if this hasn't played out to your liking. I did the best I could when I could based on information and feedback from several people. I have no regrets all things considered.
[quote author=leftCoast1963 link=topic=32233.msg137604#msg137604 date=1423947649]
WOW, UBB you shouldn't be so defensive when asked about this man. You afterall brought it to the BZ for discussion amongst the peeps here.
<B>No, Actually Steve started this</B>
Yes and you willingly participated in the discussions... so you are just as responsible for it being there.
This question has been asked by several others as well once it was learned you smoked one. Now to try and say your opinion doesn't matter. and to try to blame some of the peeps here for that is rediculous. Blame others for what exactly.
<B> Aside from my concerns about the authenticity the only other blame I've levied against others is for not paying attention.</B>
No, you have stated that it doesn't matter what you say because people in the "UBB is pulling a scam camp" etc. That is blaming others (in advance even lol) regarding their willingness to accept the status of these sticks as fakes or not, based on your opinion of them after smoking some. In other words if a person is in "that camp" according to you, they automatically would not believe your version of events. There is no camp buddy, it is all in your head. People are just trying to find out what happened by asking questions and you are catagorizing them as friend or foe based on these questions.
You can't only discuss things that show your case in good favour and ignore all else. this whole affair has beem handled poorly. Perhaps you should have just contacted Hiba Fan directly and not have used an expert, as that seems to be where most of your problems lie.
<B> This is what I meant about the not paying attention part. All of our PRIVATE correspondence has been posted previously in this thread.</B>
I know it has been posted I have read every word of it. I was saying that perhaps if you had of cantacted Steve and talked to him in PM's without having someone else there who seemed to be more of a antagonist then anything else. And I don't mean that this was his intention, but that is how it turned out isn't it? Maybe you should have been paying more attention to the way these two were interacting with each other and just called off catfish altogether. You didn't.
you also have to remember that you waited 2 months to take this action. You had to know that this would be a problem, and perhaps a more tactful approach would be called for.
As for you not reporting what you thought of the sticks you have tried??? REALLY??? The whole point of this thread is to determine if these are fakes or are they good sticks. You being the one to question the authenticity of these should at least be willing to say what he thought of them to the same forum you brought your problems to.If not why haven't you just discussed this whole affair amongst yourself and your possie of the choosen and not include the forum?
<b> Not only did I contact Steve privately prior to this thread being created, I also contacted other members of the community including the OWNER as to how go about bringing the issues I had to light. This info has all been previously posted several times.</B>
Again, several times now, you have avoided the question and refferred to who you did contact. Who cares? The question was what did you think of the stick? Was it good or not? That is an easy question and you have avoided answering it several times. Again this does not point to proof of anything concrete about the authenticity of the sticks. It does however seem suspect that you will not state wether you liked them or not. But you made your choice there.
This tact you are taking is not helping your case, in some peoples eyes. Now I know you will attempt to turn this right back onto me like you have repeatedley done throughout this thread. Thing is no one here had any opinion on this until you brought it here, and now it appears that you don't like the way things are going so you don't want to play anymore. A determination as to the authenticity of these sticks is not what you were asked for. Just your opinion on how you liked them, and you wouldn't even answer that. Don't try to turn this onto others who have questioned your methods in this either because we are NOT against you... really, that's not it.
<B> Several members here are or will be in posssession of the ciagrs in question. I'm not playing anything, this isn't a game to me. I never wanted to drag Steve's name through the mud like this and am trying hard not to which is why I approached him privately to begin with. His response's and attitude towards my concerns were dismissive and totally arrogant IMO.</B>
I don't doubt that what you say here is the absolute truth. have you thought about it from the sellers point of view, even though you know in your own mind that you are in a position of truth and rightfulness? I mean someone buys a box of sticks off you and 2 months later (2 months!!!) the fellow contacts you and tells you he thinks you may have sold him fakes!! I think you and Steve both feel like your reputations and version of the truth in this case are above reproach, and that is why you both are having such a hard time with the issues here without it becoming personal. Bringing in catfish and his style of getting answers seems to have complicated this situation, instead of helping it as you desired. I'm sure that wasn't his intention, but it seems like he thought all he had to do was accuse Steve of selling fakes to you and Steve would simply refund your money based on Catfish's knowledge and rep??? He perhaps didn't consider that HibaFan didn't agree that the sticks were fake and that he would get his back up about being accused of such, instead of just caving and issuing a refund or whatever recourse you wanted out of this.
That is another thing. You stated that you never asked for a refund, or any kind of compensation. Then why did you seek further advice from others regarding the authenticity of these sticks? You must have wanted something? If not a refund, were you looking perhaps to extract a little revenge?
Why bring in Catfish with all his accusations if you were not trying to sully HibaFans name?
You never addressed the next section of my post. I guess you didn't want to hear from someone like me who you seemed to have placed in "the UBB is scamming camp" that they were sorry you were going through this situation. It is unfortunate and I do feel bad, because cigars are for our enjoyment, but these cigars have / will bring little enjoyment to anybody now.
You also still never answered the question about how you liked the stick? You make a lot of accusations and comments about other people on this thread about not paying attention and whatnot. How about you answer that one question without deflection of any kind?
:clap:
[/quote]
As for why am I participating in this thread when I am asking for nothing in return? Isn't that what B/SOTL do? If there is a potential bad trader in the community isn't it beneficial to everyone to know? It's been like that in every cigar based group I've ever participated in.
As for Dustin. No idea why you or Steve or anyone else may or may not have problem with him. I don't know him any better than I know Fred. I do know he is an Admin of a cigar group that I'm a member of along with 3500 others. I also know he has more experience with Cuban cigars than I do. I have no reason to think his opinion is less valid than any of the people here regardless of his posting style. Unlike some of you guys, I'm not a member of FOH so I couldn't enlist some of the members there for help.
I apologize if this hasn't played out to your liking. I did the best I could when I could based on information and feedback from several people. I have no regrets all things considered.
[quote author=leftCoast1963 link=topic=32233.msg137604#msg137604 date=1423947649]
WOW, UBB you shouldn't be so defensive when asked about this man. You afterall brought it to the BZ for discussion amongst the peeps here.
<B>No, Actually Steve started this</B>
Yes and you willingly participated in the discussions... so you are just as responsible for it being there.
This question has been asked by several others as well once it was learned you smoked one. Now to try and say your opinion doesn't matter. and to try to blame some of the peeps here for that is rediculous. Blame others for what exactly.
<B> Aside from my concerns about the authenticity the only other blame I've levied against others is for not paying attention.</B>
No, you have stated that it doesn't matter what you say because people in the "UBB is pulling a scam camp" etc. That is blaming others (in advance even lol) regarding their willingness to accept the status of these sticks as fakes or not, based on your opinion of them after smoking some. In other words if a person is in "that camp" according to you, they automatically would not believe your version of events. There is no camp buddy, it is all in your head. People are just trying to find out what happened by asking questions and you are catagorizing them as friend or foe based on these questions.
You can't only discuss things that show your case in good favour and ignore all else. this whole affair has beem handled poorly. Perhaps you should have just contacted Hiba Fan directly and not have used an expert, as that seems to be where most of your problems lie.
<B> This is what I meant about the not paying attention part. All of our PRIVATE correspondence has been posted previously in this thread.</B>
I know it has been posted I have read every word of it. I was saying that perhaps if you had of cantacted Steve and talked to him in PM's without having someone else there who seemed to be more of a antagonist then anything else. And I don't mean that this was his intention, but that is how it turned out isn't it? Maybe you should have been paying more attention to the way these two were interacting with each other and just called off catfish altogether. You didn't.
you also have to remember that you waited 2 months to take this action. You had to know that this would be a problem, and perhaps a more tactful approach would be called for.
As for you not reporting what you thought of the sticks you have tried??? REALLY??? The whole point of this thread is to determine if these are fakes or are they good sticks. You being the one to question the authenticity of these should at least be willing to say what he thought of them to the same forum you brought your problems to.If not why haven't you just discussed this whole affair amongst yourself and your possie of the choosen and not include the forum?
<b> Not only did I contact Steve privately prior to this thread being created, I also contacted other members of the community including the OWNER as to how go about bringing the issues I had to light. This info has all been previously posted several times.</B>
Again, several times now, you have avoided the question and refferred to who you did contact. Who cares? The question was what did you think of the stick? Was it good or not? That is an easy question and you have avoided answering it several times. Again this does not point to proof of anything concrete about the authenticity of the sticks. It does however seem suspect that you will not state wether you liked them or not. But you made your choice there.
This tact you are taking is not helping your case, in some peoples eyes. Now I know you will attempt to turn this right back onto me like you have repeatedley done throughout this thread. Thing is no one here had any opinion on this until you brought it here, and now it appears that you don't like the way things are going so you don't want to play anymore. A determination as to the authenticity of these sticks is not what you were asked for. Just your opinion on how you liked them, and you wouldn't even answer that. Don't try to turn this onto others who have questioned your methods in this either because we are NOT against you... really, that's not it.
<B> Several members here are or will be in posssession of the ciagrs in question. I'm not playing anything, this isn't a game to me. I never wanted to drag Steve's name through the mud like this and am trying hard not to which is why I approached him privately to begin with. His response's and attitude towards my concerns were dismissive and totally arrogant IMO.</B>
I don't doubt that what you say here is the absolute truth. have you thought about it from the sellers point of view, even though you know in your own mind that you are in a position of truth and rightfulness? I mean someone buys a box of sticks off you and 2 months later (2 months!!!) the fellow contacts you and tells you he thinks you may have sold him fakes!! I think you and Steve both feel like your reputations and version of the truth in this case are above reproach, and that is why you both are having such a hard time with the issues here without it becoming personal. Bringing in catfish and his style of getting answers seems to have complicated this situation, instead of helping it as you desired. I'm sure that wasn't his intention, but it seems like he thought all he had to do was accuse Steve of selling fakes to you and Steve would simply refund your money based on Catfish's knowledge and rep??? He perhaps didn't consider that HibaFan didn't agree that the sticks were fake and that he would get his back up about being accused of such, instead of just caving and issuing a refund or whatever recourse you wanted out of this.
That is another thing. You stated that you never asked for a refund, or any kind of compensation. Then why did you seek further advice from others regarding the authenticity of these sticks? You must have wanted something? If not a refund, were you looking perhaps to extract a little revenge?
Why bring in Catfish with all his accusations if you were not trying to sully HibaFans name?
You never addressed the next section of my post. I guess you didn't want to hear from someone like me who you seemed to have placed in "the UBB is scamming camp" that they were sorry you were going through this situation. It is unfortunate and I do feel bad, because cigars are for our enjoyment, but these cigars have / will bring little enjoyment to anybody now.
You also still never answered the question about how you liked the stick? You make a lot of accusations and comments about other people on this thread about not paying attention and whatnot. How about you answer that one question without deflection of any kind?
:clap:
[/quote]
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catfishbluezz
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:18 pm
Re: UBB I'll start the thread for you...please proceed
Read the thread Doug. He didn't bring me in.
He sent one of these to someone in a forum I mod. That person sent me pics, I posted them. That person smoked it, thought it sucked. I told that person based on pics, the band and caps were questionable but the wrapper looked good. That person contacted Bill, Bill offered to make it right. Bill offered to send to me to compare side by side legit bands. They still looked off, caps looked off. Before I ever had a chance to smoke them, he had been messaging Hiba, Hiba posted this thread.
I have dated pm's that took place before this thread started to prove all that. I contacted several BOTL with the pics before this thread started to get their take, many whom you know. I offered to send these sticks to other parties.
The reality is, Hiba responded with attacks, suggesting these were not his sticks, that I had some agenda, and now he wants them sent to the same parties he told me he didn't give a shit about and initially assumed what I posted was not his...
Funny thing is, I had already made plans to send them to another well known BOTL with the same box codes as well after he denied that offer. He got personal and acted like a shady arrogant ass, then was responded to in such a way. That's not on me or UBB. That's on him. Why go trough all of this when his stance the while time was fuck off?
And that is why I am done with this. The rest of my correspondences will be via pm with the vets involved, and folks I talked to before and during this. People can decide if they want to do business with him after reading this. Of course, he will be banned anyways, so what's the point...
He sent one of these to someone in a forum I mod. That person sent me pics, I posted them. That person smoked it, thought it sucked. I told that person based on pics, the band and caps were questionable but the wrapper looked good. That person contacted Bill, Bill offered to make it right. Bill offered to send to me to compare side by side legit bands. They still looked off, caps looked off. Before I ever had a chance to smoke them, he had been messaging Hiba, Hiba posted this thread.
I have dated pm's that took place before this thread started to prove all that. I contacted several BOTL with the pics before this thread started to get their take, many whom you know. I offered to send these sticks to other parties.
The reality is, Hiba responded with attacks, suggesting these were not his sticks, that I had some agenda, and now he wants them sent to the same parties he told me he didn't give a shit about and initially assumed what I posted was not his...
Funny thing is, I had already made plans to send them to another well known BOTL with the same box codes as well after he denied that offer. He got personal and acted like a shady arrogant ass, then was responded to in such a way. That's not on me or UBB. That's on him. Why go trough all of this when his stance the while time was fuck off?
And that is why I am done with this. The rest of my correspondences will be via pm with the vets involved, and folks I talked to before and during this. People can decide if they want to do business with him after reading this. Of course, he will be banned anyways, so what's the point...
PL is my hero
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mrmagee
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:41 pm
Re:
[quote author=forgop link=topic=32233.msg137621#msg137621 date=1423955381]
It's pretty cowardly to bring the accusation of fakes in public and when directly asked how it smoked, pull.a bitch move saying "I shared it with others via PM".
[/quote]
To be fair, he wasn't the one who brought it to the public.
It's pretty cowardly to bring the accusation of fakes in public and when directly asked how it smoked, pull.a bitch move saying "I shared it with others via PM".
[/quote]
To be fair, he wasn't the one who brought it to the public.
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forgop
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:34 pm
Re:
[quote author=mrmagee link=topic=32233.msg137623#msg137623 date=1423956796]
To be fair, he wasn't the one who brought it to the public.
[/quote]
Seemed to me that's where he wanted to go and the OP obliged just so he would have a place for discussion. It didn't seem as though he was able to get the answers he wanted via PM.
To be fair, he wasn't the one who brought it to the public.
[/quote]
Seemed to me that's where he wanted to go and the OP obliged just so he would have a place for discussion. It didn't seem as though he was able to get the answers he wanted via PM.
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Hutch
- Posts: 423
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:23 am
Re: UBB I'll start the thread for you...please proceed
Anybody who keeps cigars for TWO MONTHS before even raising an issue might not be smart enough to be buying expensive things :)
100+ Trader Comments comments available on CF under "Champboat"
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forgop
- Posts: 453
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:34 pm
Re: Re:
[quote author=mrmagee link=topic=32233.msg137625#msg137625 date=1423958191]
So what's the right move?� He brought it up privately first.� Assuming Steve behaved there the way he's behaved through this thread...not sure what else you'd want from him.
[/quote]
Is it too much to ask him to share publicly how it smoked given all else that was aired in public? I think it's weak to accuse someone of passing fakes and leave out the most important detail (how it actually smoked).
I get that both attempted to do things in private and buyer didn't get an answer he liked, so seller started thread to get more input.
So what's the right move?� He brought it up privately first.� Assuming Steve behaved there the way he's behaved through this thread...not sure what else you'd want from him.
[/quote]
Is it too much to ask him to share publicly how it smoked given all else that was aired in public? I think it's weak to accuse someone of passing fakes and leave out the most important detail (how it actually smoked).
I get that both attempted to do things in private and buyer didn't get an answer he liked, so seller started thread to get more input.
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Pole Lock
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 pm
Re: Re:
[quote author=forgop link=topic=32233.msg137662#msg137662 date=1423966839]
Is it too much to ask him to share publicly how it smoked given all else that was aired in public? I think it's weak to accuse someone of passing fakes and leave out the most important detail (how it actually smoked).
I get that both attempted to do things in private and buyer didn't get an answer he liked, so seller started thread to get more input.
[/quote]
Come the Fizzuck on! If I was accusing somebody of selling me fakes, and I smoked one, I would [u][i]surely[/i][/u] tell everyone how it smoked. [b]Especially if I was making these accusations in the public forum known as the BZ. :-*[/b]
Is it too much to ask him to share publicly how it smoked given all else that was aired in public? I think it's weak to accuse someone of passing fakes and leave out the most important detail (how it actually smoked).
I get that both attempted to do things in private and buyer didn't get an answer he liked, so seller started thread to get more input.
[/quote]
Come the Fizzuck on! If I was accusing somebody of selling me fakes, and I smoked one, I would [u][i]surely[/i][/u] tell everyone how it smoked. [b]Especially if I was making these accusations in the public forum known as the BZ. :-*[/b]