UBB I'll start the thread for you...please proceed

[UBB]

If you've been following along then you'd know I've had more then one. At this point it doesn't matter what I think. I'm the guy who needed 2nd, 3rd, and 4th party help in authenticating some questionable cigars.

If you're in the "UBB is running a scam" camp what I say good or bad isn't valid either. I've shared my thoughts on how these smoke with some privately.
Glad this cluster fucking is at least entertaining for some of you though.


[quote author=forgop link=topic=32233.msg137550#msg137550 date=1423923839]
I find it odd that UBB smoked one and doesn't seem to have weighed in on it yet. If it was awful, I don't believe for for a second he would be silent about it. My guess is that it was a good cigar, but doesn't necessarily mean it was a genuine CoRo.
[/quote]

[lebigmac]

Yeah, just  curious to know if the smoke is good.

[UBB]

Ok perhaps. I guess the best way would then be to enlist the input of other more experienced smokers. Perhaps I could send some out to others. Oh....wait.

[quote author=tstoner86 link=topic=32233.msg137554#msg137554 date=1423925575]
Or he doesn't know what a CoRo should taste like. No offense UBB, but going by bands and cap 100% to make your decision, isn't really the way to go.
[/quote]

[HibaFan]

[quote author=UBB link=topic=32233.msg137561#msg137561 date=1423925953]
Ok perhaps. I guess the best way would then be to enlist the input of other more experienced smokers. Perhaps I could send some out to others. Oh....wait.

[/quote]
You know what...I am gonna step back from all this...this is not what this hobby is supposed to be about and unfortunately I have not in my posts reacted very well to any of this. This forum has a number of people that display a real sickness in here and think it is brotherly, myself included. Fred, I will PM you my email address in case Wade decides to ban me for other reasons, otherwise you won't hear from me again on this matter.

[leftCoast1963]

[quote author=UBB link=topic=32233.msg137559#msg137559 date=1423925709]
If you've been following along then you'd know I've had more then one. At this point it doesn't matter what I think. I'm the guy who needed 2nd, 3rd, and 4th party help in authenticating some questionable cigars.

If you're in the "UBB is running a scam" camp what I say good or bad isn't valid either. I've shared my thoughts on how these smoke with some privately.
Glad this cluster fucking is at least entertaining for some of you though.


[/quote]WOW, UBB you shouldn't be so defensive when asked about this man. You afterall brought it to the BZ for discussion amongst the peeps here.

This question has been asked by several others as well once it was learned you smoked one. Now to try and say your opinion doesn't matter. and to try to blame some of the peeps here for that is rediculous.

You can't only discuss things that show your case in good favour and ignore all else. this whole affair has beem handled poorly. Perhaps you should have just contacted Hiba Fan directly and not have used an expert, as that seems to be where most of your problems lie.

A little more tact from all parties may have resolved this instead of turning it into the clusterfuck that it is now. Finger pointing and name calling is how we used to handle things in grade school. Talking and trying to understand someone elses point of view before jumping to conclusions is the way this should have been handled It seems a little personal animosity between HibaFan and catfish got in the way of a resolution happening sooner. You may have discussed this  more successfully with HibaFan yourself as you seem very articulate and reasonable. Your expert got himself into a "how much I know" sort of arguement and seemed to have lost track of his agenda while proving his merit. IMO

As for you not reporting what you thought of the sticks you have tried??? REALLY??? The whole point of this thread is to determine if these are fakes or are they good sticks. You being the one to question the authenticity of these should at least be willing to say what he thought of them to the same forum you brought your problems to. If not why haven't you just discussed this whole affair amongst yourself and your possie of the choosen and not include the forum?

This tact you are taking is not helping your case, in some peoples eyes. Now I know you will attempt to turn this right back onto me like you have repeatedley done throughout this thread. Thing is no one here had any opinion on this until you brought it here, and now it appears that you don't like the way things are going so you don't want to play anymore. A determination as to the authenticity of these sticks is not what you were asked for. Just your opinion on how you liked them, and you wouldn't even answer that. Don't try to turn this onto others who have questioned your methods in this either because we are NOT against you... really, that's not it.

People spend a LONG time to build up a reputation in places like the cigar community. These reputations can be destroyed rather quickly when word of selling fakes becomes attached to someones rep. Some people don't give a rats ass about someone elses reputation and will even use the fact that a bad rep. can harm future business to bully a person who they suspect has done this or to someone who just doesn't want to deal with things like that being said about them at all. It is a serious charge... the most serious. It is not taken lightly by the community and it should never be handled the way this was.

I am truley sorry that this has happened to you UBB. I do not like to see people taken advantage of or to see people who believe they have been. Now because of the way things went it does not appear that either party will be happy with the results even if they agree to the final outcome. That to me is the important part in all this. The enjoyment of a cigar, the knowledge of where it came from, how it was made and cared for by so many individuals to ensure that one day it would be enjoyed by someone who would appreciate all the hours of labor that went into the making of those 40 - 90 minutes of enjoyment when that cigar is lit. Something tells me that there will be little of those feelings about these cigars. Too bad.

And for what it's worth... I think many here would still like to know what you thought of the sticks regardless of what you think of their authenticity. Hiding behind "what difference would it make now" is weak.

Be well.

[UBB]

[quote author=leftCoast1963 link=topic=32233.msg137586#msg137586 date=1423938623]
WOW, UBB you shouldn't be so defensive when asked about this man. You afterall brought it to the BZ for discussion amongst the peeps here. [color=red]No, Actually Steve started this thread[/color]

This question has been asked by several others as well once it was learned you smoked one. Now to try and say your opinion doesn't matter. and to try to blame some of the peeps here for that is rediculous.[color=red] Blame others for what exactly. Aside from my concerns about the authenticity the only other blame I've levied against others is for not paying attention.[/color]

You can't only discuss things that show your case in good favour and ignore all else. this whole affair has beem handled poorly.[b] Perhaps you should have just contacted Hiba Fan directly[/b] and not have used an expert, as that seems to be where most of your problems lie. [color=red]This is what I meant about the not paying attention part. All of our PRIVATE correspondence has been posted previously in this thread.[/color]

A little more tact from all parties may have resolved this instead of turning it into the clusterfuck that it is now. Finger pointing and name calling is how we used to handle things in grade school. Talking and trying to understand someone elses point of view before jumping to conclusions is the way this should have been handled It seems a little personal animosity between HibaFan and catfish got in the way of a resolution happening sooner. [b]You may have discussed this  more successfully with HibaFan yourself [/b]as you seem very articulate and reasonable. Your expert got himself into a "how much I know" sort of arguement and seemed to have lost track of his agenda while proving his merit. IMO[color=red][font=Verdana] Once again, I did exactly that. Steve was completely dismissive of any concerns I had, and HE created this thread. Any additional personal strife between Hibba and Catfish is really not my concern.[/font][/color]

As for you not reporting what you thought of the sticks you have tried??? REALLY??? The whole point of this thread is to determine if these are fakes or are they good sticks. You being the one to question the authenticity of these should at least be willing to say what he thought of them to the same forum you brought your problems to.[b]If not why haven't you just discussed this whole affair amongst yourself and your possie of the choosen and not include the forum?[/b] [color=red] Not only did I contact Steve privately prior to this thread being created, I also contacted other members of the community including the OWNER as to how go about bringing the issues I had to light. This info has all been previously posted several times.[/color]

This tact you are taking is not helping your case, in some peoples eyes. Now I know you will attempt to turn this right back onto me like you have repeatedley done throughout this thread. Thing is no one here had any opinion on this until you brought it here, and now it appears that you don't like the way things are going so you don't want to play anymore. A determination as to the authenticity of these sticks is not what you were asked for. Just your opinion on how you liked them, and you wouldn't even answer that. Don't try to turn this onto others who have questioned your methods in this either because we are NOT against you... really, that's not it. [color=red]Several members here are or will be in posssession of the ciagrs in question. I'm not playing anything, this isn't a game to me. I never wanted to drag Steve's name through the mud like this and am trying hard not to which is why I approached him privately to begin with. His response's and attitude towards my concerns were dismissive and totally arrogant IMO.[/color]

People spend a LONG time to build up a reputation in places like the cigar community. These reputations can be destroyed rather quickly when word of selling fakes becomes attached to someones rep. Some people don't give a rats ass about someone elses reputation and will even use the fact that a bad rep. can harm future business to bully a person who they suspect has done this or to someone who just doesn't want to deal with things like that being said about them at all. [b]It is a serious charge... the most serious. It is not taken lightly by the community and it should never be handled the way this was. [/b] [color=yellow]exactly which is why I handled my concerns the way I did by seeking feedback from more experienced smokers than I, other members of the community including the sites owner and also contacting Steve privately. [/color]
I am truley sorry that this has happened to you UBB. I do not like to see people taken advantage of or to see people who believe they have been. Now because of the way things went it does not appear that either party will be happy with the results even if they agree to the final outcome. That to me is the important part in all this. The enjoyment of a cigar, the knowledge of where it came from, how it was made and cared for by so many individuals to ensure that one day it would be enjoyed by someone who would appreciate all the hours of labor that went into the making of those 40 - 90 minutes of enjoyment when that cigar is lit. Something tells me that there will be little of those feelings about these cigars. Too bad.

And for what it's worth... I think many here would still like to know what you thought of the sticks regardless of what you think of their authenticity. Hiding behind "what difference would it make now" is weak.

Be well.
[/quote]

[Pole Lock]

[quote author=UBB link=topic=32233.msg137559#msg137559 date=1423925709]
If you've been following along then you'd know I've had more then one. [b]At this point it doesn't matter what I think.[/b] I'm the guy who needed 2nd, 3rd, and 4th party help in authenticating some questionable cigars.
[/quote]

Really!?  I thought this whole thread was about what you think!

I'll second forgop's assumption; if it had smoked like a fake, you would have told us.

[UBB]

Really? After that long post this is what you focus on?  :-\ I think the fact that this thread is still active should provide you with enough info about what I think about them and how they smoked.

Real or fake, the fact remains that unknowingly or not, Steve passed me a box, of the most counterfeited brand of cigars in the world, that contained multiple sticks that couldn't pass the most basic of eye tests even from experienced smokers of Cuban cigars.


[quote author=Pole Lock link=topic=32233.msg137599#msg137599 date=1423945314]
Really!?  I thought this whole thread was about what you think!

I'll second forgop's assumption; if it had smoked like a fake, you would have told us.
[/quote]

[Pole Lock]

[quote author=UBB link=topic=32233.msg137600#msg137600 date=1423945934]
Really? After that long post this is what you focus on?  :-\ I think the fact that this thread is still active [b]should provide you with enough info about what I think about them and how they smoked.[/b]

Real or fake, the fact remains that unknowingly or not, Steve passed me a box, of the most counterfeited brand of cigars in the world, that contained [b]multiple sticks that couldn't pass the most basic of eye tests even from experienced smokers of Cuban cigars. [/b]
[/quote]

Can't find anywhere where you say how they smoked.

Experienced smokers of Cuban cigars would tell you what tstoner told you - the eye test is next to useless with Havanas.  "Cuba being Cuba" I believe is the saying.

I thought the wrapper of the double-capped had the tooth and vein structure I associate with recent CoRo.  I even checked my stock and thought so.

[UBB]

Obviously not all of them, hence the reason we are here.
I would also make the argument that if someone receives a box of cigars that has as many inconsistencies as the one in question and DOESN"T ask any questions or make any inquiries, he/she is not doing themselves any favors. Of course that's JMO.

[quote author=Pole Lock link=topic=32233.msg137601#msg137601 date=1423946092]
Experienced smokers of Cuban cigars would tell you what tstoner told you - the eye test is next to useless with Havanas.  "Cuba being Cuba" I believe is the saying.
[/quote]