What El Prez said

[bundwallah]

I too have been following that thread.  (Full disclosure. I'm a mod on FOH and I've made several purchases from JO in the past.  And before you ask, I don't go back to Rob with intel that people are being mean to him on OLH) He knows he has is detractors and I really DGAF to play that game. He's a grown man and can handle himself.

As with war, the first casualty of Cuban Cigar knowledge, is the truth. 

I've had the pleasure of touring El Laguito back in 2012 on my first trip to Havana.  What I observed is the following.  Those of us who trailed behind on the tour would hear a quick whistle or smoochy sound from a roller or two to get our attention.  And once our attention was had, the rollers or other staff would hold up a 25 count wheel of unbanded BHK56's.  That's what was being rolled that day. El Laguito's rolling area isn't huge so it's not unrealistic for them to focus on one cigar/vitola until they're done and move on to the next.  In contrast, the La Corona Factory is huge and has different cigars being rolled daily. 

Those BHK56 bundles were being offered up at 75CUC.  We were asked as a courtesy by our guide/host not to indulge.  So we didn't.  However, there were some Germans on our tour, that decided to go for it and starting stuffing napsacks, camera bags, etc with BHK56 bundles.  So, to say that legit stock couldn't come out of El Laguito, let alone any other factory, is IMO and based on my direct observations; very possible.  Could that stock have been brought in from outside and dished out via EL? Very possible too.  There are so many variables at play and you will never get to the truth.  Interesting side note. On our tour, we got to take a quick peek into a room where there were shelves of banded cigars just sitting there of great interest. Mainly stuff that were made for various Habanos Books, such as Cohiba Sublimes Extra, large Hoyos, Monte A's, CGR's  and even some bundles of 25 Anniversary Cohiba vitolas.  Naturally, our eyes popped out and the only answer we got was that typically, more was rolled than what was needed or production #'s were cut back.  There's was also various sticks with the green Palma Royal band (sic?)

Can JO arrange the same thing?  Possible. I will add though, that what he was offering years ago, had no ties to EL. Maybe to Santos and other rollers, but it was always assumed he hit up the farms for his stock.  Only he can confirm of course. 

But I digress.  My point is that Havana is full of interesting things and tall tales. A lot of folks in this hobby like to feel they are "in" on things.  I did too for a while and came to realize, it's all a big game to gain favour at the time from visitors.  What was real or not really became blurry.  People I felt were something, were in fact something else.  Good and or bad. 

With JO's offerings, all I can say is this.  I've ordered many bundles from him. He's done some cool stuff for me to spec which I really appreciated.  What they really are I will truly never know. I just hope that they are at least made with Cuban tobacco 100% through. To my nose and taste buds, I don't pick up any NC flavours and aromas.  So, I'm OK with that.  If he is marketing his stuff as EL based, I have no evidence to the contrary. I do find it odd that given the recent years of tobacco shortages that any slippage of stock is possible.  We've all seen how Habanos products have changed as a result. Lack of proper leaf has led to serious reductions in Cohiba stock, BHK's and most new releases are those damn short robustos!  If his stuff really isn't from EL I hope he wouldn't present it that way. His stuff sold regardless.  At the end of the day, if you're happy with your cigar, that should be the end of it.  If provenance is important to you, prepare to be duped somewhere along the line.  There are lots of "experts" online that think they have the inside track on all things Cuban cigars. If there's one thing I've learned, is that Cuban people are very crafty and make for great sales people.  What you believe, is up to you. What is the truth? Is an entirely different matter. 

my 2c 

Bundwallah

[chameri71]

[quote author=bpegler link=topic=46456.msg184796#msg184796 date=1541086364]
Quick question, OP: Did you ask for and receive permission from Rob before you started a thread with his name and quotes on this board?

Besides quoting your “expert”, do you have any experience smoking any of the EL cigars from John or anyone else? Do you have any personal knowledge about the EL factory and  what they’re rolling?

I don’t personally think 🤔 that (outside of his board) that “El Prez” is generally thought of as an expert on the El Laguito factory. So your argument seems shallow at best.
[/quote]

Quick answer:
No. No. Yes.
I do think that el Prez has expertise on EL.
He arranged the visit bundwalla refers to.

[bpegler]

[quote author=chameri71 link=topic=46456.msg184820#msg184820 date=1541146162]
Quick answer:
No. No. Yes.
I do think that el Prez has expertise on EL.
He arranged the visit bundwalla refers to.


[/quote]
Here’s the thing. If Rob was posting about his experience here, it would be fine. But he’s not here. That’s why your post is a fallacious appeal to authority.

What’s also disturbing is that you seem to feel that you can create a new thread on another board, using Robs name and direct quotes from his home board without his knowledge or approval. These were your first posts here, and they show a remarkable lack of basic courtesy.

By your own admission, you don’t have any actual personal experience with John’s cigars. So I’m confused about what you’re hoping to accomplish here, other than to create some cross board controversy. That’s also generally considered poor form.

FWIW, I found Bundwallas post to be quite helpful, it was based on his actual experience. It also seemed to bring into question the entire premise of your thread here.

[chameri71]

Feel free to have your opinion. I have mine.

FOH is not a closed forum and I am not posting anything confidential.

I appeal to common sense in not believing someone's claim of EL "seconds" or, for that matter, anything bigger than a bundle occasionally bought inside any Cuban factory.

Last thing on my mind is to create cross-board controversy, just pointing at the available information and comments on the topic of "EL cigars" on FOH which some seem to share here as well.

The fact that Bundwahlla had that experience 6 years ago on his first and I believe only visit there under a management and conditions that have dramatically changed since does not question anything.

RA knows what he is talking about and his verdict is fraud or theft, I concur.

[Brlesq]

[quote author=chameri71 link=topic=46456.msg184823#msg184823 date=1541166667]
Last thing on my mind is to create cross-board controversy, just pointing at the available information and comments on the topic of "EL cigars" on FOH which some seem to share here as well.
[/quote]

Maybe I'm just a skeptic, but you lurked here for 7 years without a single post or trade, and then suddenly appear creating this thread and 5 posts?  The sole intent certainly appears to be to harm or discredit JO or others, not to educate the forum. 

[Fshaw]

[quote author=bpegler link=topic=46456.msg184786#msg184786 date=1541078299]
Argumentum ad veracundiam.
[/quote]

Exactly...

[Johnny-O!]

[quote author=chameri71 link=topic=46456.msg184823#msg184823 date=1541166667]
Feel free to have your opinion. I have mine.

FOH is not a closed forum and I am not posting anything confidential.

I appeal to common sense in not believing someone's claim of EL "seconds" or, for that matter, anything bigger than a bundle occasionally bought inside any Cuban factory.

Last thing on my mind is to create cross-board controversy, just pointing at the available information and comments on the topic of "EL cigars" on FOH which some seem to share here as well.

The fact that Bundwahlla had that experience 6 years ago on his first and I believe only visit there under a management and conditions that have dramatically changed since does not question anything.

RA knows what he is talking about and his verdict is fraud or theft, I concur.

[/quote]

Well Rob closed the thread concluding that his comments were not directed towards me and were just comments in general. He even said the Johnny-O! Nation is well liked at FOH. But you interpret it any way you want, twist it and turn it to your likes. I guess its good therapy for you. Why don't you get off the bandwagon and go spend some time with your family? The hateraid is eating you up brah. John :beer:

[chameri71]

[quote author=Brlesq link=topic=46456.msg184826#msg184826 date=1541168643]
Maybe I'm just a skeptic, but you lurked here for 7 years without a single post or trade, and then suddenly appear creating this thread and 5 posts?  The sole intent certainly appears to be to harm or discredit JO or others, not to educate the forum.   
[/quote]

You are a skeptic.
No intention to harm or discredit anyone, just passing on information.

[chameri71]

[quote author=Johnny-O! link=topic=46456.msg184832#msg184832 date=1541176247]
Well Rob closed the thread concluding that his comments were not directed towards me and were just comments in general. He even said the Johnny-O! Nation is well liked at FOH. But you interpret it any way you want, twist it and turn it to your likes. I guess its good therapy for you. Why don't you get off the bandwagon and go spend some time with your family? The hateraid is eating you up brah. John :beer:
[/quote]

You conveniently ignore comments he and others posted before the thread was closed. No twisting and no shouting, no hate either. Facts.
Go ahead and check. You don't own the truth.

[Fshaw]

[quote author=chameri71 link=topic=46456.msg184834#msg184834 date=1541177582]
You conveniently ignore comments he and others posted before the thread was closed. No twisting and no shouting, no hate either. Facts.
Go ahead and check. You don't own the truth.

[/quote]

I'm just curious, why do you care so much? It seems like you are prosecuting a case, but the motives for doing so are not discernible.