Beware of Massphatness/Vin

[SrsMiscer]

Looks like its time to smoke one.....

[AlohaStyle]

[quote author=avioli link=topic=19214.msg91588#msg91588 date=1370293982]
I told Vinnie i didnt even want my money back.
I just wanted to return the damn things.

[/quote]

I think the quote above is the funniest thing in this thread... someone on the scumbag list for cashing someone's check when they were asked not to and then not giving the money back is just going to say... I will return these "fake cigars" and don't want my money back???  LOL

[massphatness]

[quote author=avioli link=topic=19214.msg91661#msg91661 date=1370377609]
So u wanna sweep it under the rug.
[b]Vinnie tried to make a few xtra bucks when he bought a new house.[/b]
The 180.00 to me and the other refund he gave  were small, but the 1400.00
he took this kid for is being ignored. Nanilla is in med school, and his wife just had a baby a few months ago. And he just moved out of a house to a small apt. Yeah, i talked to him.

Thats a good boy Brad, use me on the list to deflect
the fact that one of the good ole boys sold fake cigars.
You need to put your hatred for me aside, and wonder [b]what made Vinny think he could get away with it. He belongs right along side me on the list.[/b]
[/quote]

You know, Avi, I tried to be mature about this and keep you out of it exactly because of responses like some of those above which seemed to be geared more to the fact that you're involved than addressing the actual issue at hand.  However, I am not going to sit here and allow you to insinuate that I am a thief.

You & Nanilla pressed me on a number of questions two months after I had shipped it.  You asked how I wanted to handle it.  My email response is below in its entirety save for removing your last name.

-----------------
[color=navy][i]Hi John,

I'm copying Avi as you've both contacted me about this issue, and my response is the same to you as it was to him:

Avi - I don't want to proceed. Please don't misunderstand my email to John: it's not about having spent the funds.

As I told him in the email, the more important issue is it's a high value box that's been out of my control for more than two months.  I have no idea what's transpired in that time.  Had I not sent photos or had he contacted me immediately upon receipt, no problem. I'm a reasonable guy, but this is beyond reason.  It's too much to ask of someone.  At a certain point, the clock runs out.

I understand this isn't the resolution you're looking for, John, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone with whom you do not have a prior relationship -- vendors and private sellers both -- who will take back a high value box after such a long time period.  It's up to the buyer to raise issues upon receipt, not two months later, as it opens the door to at least the possibility of some type of scam being run.

I won't refund or replace a box at this price point once a buyer confirms receipt and has had a couple days to inspect it.  I'm not trying to put one over on you, but at the same time, I have to make sure something isn't being put over on me.

Respectfully,

Vin[/i][/color]
-----------------

For me this has always been about the elapsed time from shipment to when the questions were raised.  Nothing more.  In a follow up email to John (Nanilla) after the issue had been batted around here in the BZ some:

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[color=navy][i]Hi John,

Now that the “Beware of Vin” thread has been up on OLH for a bit, I’m hoping we can put this whole issue to bed.  As I’ve maintained since you first contacted me, the issue has always been about the elapsed time from receipt to request for refund.  I never attempted to address any of the questions or concerns you and Avi raised because too much time had passed.  And my sense was anything I said was going to be interpreted as excuse making or some attempt to cover up for the “fakes” I sold you.  And I certainly wasn’t “outing” the vendor of the cigars as I was not going to be a party to the initial bashing that would have gone on.  Once it’s on the web, it’s there forever.  I learned that one the hard way.
 
I’m hoping by this time you’re beginning to understand that the cigars in your possession are the real deal and sometimes packaging inconsistencies can be attributed to “Cuba being Cuba”.
 
I’ve avoided posting in the OLH thread because I detest the drama.  I’ve seen better guys than me flayed & skewered both rightly and wrongly on cigar boards over the years, and while I was always comfortable with my responses to you and Avi on this matter, I was (and am) unwilling to invest the emotional capital required to wade into that thread.  If you stay on the boards long enough, you’ll understand precisely what I mean.
 
I don’t blame you for bringing the matter to the community – I really don’t.  I completely understand why you would want to do so.  I knew it was coming as Avi hinted at it, but in his counsel to you, I wish he had encouraged the posting of a “What would you do?” of “What do you think of this situation?” thread instead of one that was more attack oriented.  Things spin out of control quickly on cigar boards, and a different initial theme in the thread would have provided you cover.  It’s a learning experience any of us who have been around for a time have all been through.
 
If you feel better about the purchase now having been shown there are legit boxes out there which look precisely the same as the one in your possession, you can squash a lot of the drama in the thread by simply saying so.  That’s a decision for you to make, but cigar boards in general (and OLH in particular) often lend themselves to a pack mentality.  And some people love to kick a guy when he’s down.
 
If you still feel you got taken, there’s not much I can say to change that.  You might consider sending one of the cigars to both Moki & Insight for their opinions.  Beyond that, I don’t have a suggestion.
 
In the end, I will close with something I said in an earlier email:  I hope you smoke the cigars and find hours of enjoyment in them.
 
Respectfully,
 
Vin
[/i][/color]
-----------

Avi - your expert opinion means next to nothing to me.  You haven't inspected the box.  You haven't smoked the cigars.  You're judging everything based on the absence of stickers!  And you seem to be ignoring the fact that similarly unstickered boxes have been sold at auction.

I don't know what your end game is here.  Maybe you're trying to save face with John for having been exposed as no real expert at all?  I don't know.  I don't particularly care, but your casual willingness to impugn my reputation is irksome.

So with all due respect, sir, go pound sand.

[Brlesq]

:clap:

[avioli]

Vinny, will you please tell us where you got the Sublimes.

I had the MGE`s from you for 6 weeks till i smoked one,
after we disagreed a few days i convinced you they are bogus and you did the right thing
by me after i returned them.
They were out of your hands for 6 weeks, but 180.00 isnt 1400.00.

AGAIN, WHAT VENDOR ARE THE CIGARS FROM.
DO YOU HAVE RECIEPTS OR SHIPPING NOTICES.

Why not have Phil [Insight] look at the sublimes, thats how its usually done here.

[avioli]

[quote author=AlohaStyle link=topic=19214.msg91672#msg91672 date=1370384443]
I think the quote above is the funniest thing in this thread... someone on the scumbag list for cashing someone's check when they were asked not to and then not giving the money back is just going to say... I will return these "fake cigars" and don't want my money back???   LOL
[/quote]

Whats funny, ask Vinny, i said it, but he refunded me.

[mk05]

Avioli, you sure are a BOTL looking out for the community. Where was your warning regarding massphatness when you smoked that "fake" MGE 6 weeks after he sent it to you, and he refunded you completely?

[bpegler]

Perhaps a good lesson here, for the new guys, is to look beyond the Scumbags list for your mentor in Cuban Cigars.

Avi is an embarrassment.

If you want a good example of how fakes are proven by a respected BOTL, look at Moki's work. Careful, thoughtful analysis. Side by side comparisons. The opposite of this silly drama.

If the OP wants to send a cigar to one of the respected (non scumbag) members mentioned earlier, that might further the discussion.

[avioli]

[quote author=mk05 link=topic=19214.msg91706#msg91706 date=1370418397]
Avioli, you sure are a BOTL looking out for the community. Where was your warning regarding massphatness when you smoked that "fake" MGE 6 weeks after he sent it to you, and he refunded you completely?
[/quote]

Thats a good question, but i gave him the benefit of the doubt that he didnt know
they were fakes, given his stellar reputation, which is why i blindly bought the cigars in the 1st place.

So, say he still didnt know they are fakes, and he didnt know Nillas were fakes,
that dosnt change the fact mine were fakes.
send them to MOKI and INSIGHT, they are the resident experts.
He still hasnt told us where he got them.

[parshooter]

[quote author=avioli link=topic=19214.msg91661#msg91661 date=1370377609]
but the 1400.00
he took this kid for is being ignored. Nanilla is in med school, and his wife just had a baby a few months ago. And he just moved out of a house to a small apt.
[/quote]
That's Nanilla's choice to spend the $1400 on cigars.  Doesn't matter that he's in school, has a new baby, etc. Don't see your point here.