curious....

[reflex]

[quote author=Hutch link=topic=44117.msg178832#msg178832 date=1520428252]
I’m gonna have to call bullshit on both the 5% rule, as well as the pervasive thought that prices on OLH are FMV, or even close to the value or worth of cigars posted here. Just because the occasional novice or uninformed buyer is suckered doesn’t mean that the prices he paid are the value of those cigars. Additionally, anybody who believes that all of the ridiculous prices posted get met is naive at best...whether the seller posts “done” or not. I know for a fact of at least two sellers who throw out silly prices, and even occasionally sell at those prices, but more often than not still have the cigars a month or two later when they rinse and repeat. Sold or not, the fact that someone posted those prices is absolutely no indication of the cigars value. I see quite a bit of “flipper inflation” perpetuated on OLH. It seems that some think that if a silly price is posted enough times that eventually someone will bite, thinking “that’s what they go for”.

I’m 100% for the free market, and totally behind a buyer being entitled to ask what he wants when selling his property, but when JoeFlipper posts a 7 year old box of cigars for 50% more than they can be had for from current production (and 60% more than they were purchased for), that doesn’t mean that the box is worth the asking price. And even if they do end up with a buyer, that’s still no indication that the exact same cigars can’t be purchased elsewhere at a more reasonable price. JMO though  ;)
[/quote]

EXACTLY!!!!!

[goodsmokes]

[quote author=Hutch link=topic=44117.msg178832#msg178832 date=1520428252]
I’m gonna have to call bullshit on both the 5% rule, as well as the pervasive thought that prices on OLH are FMV, or even close to the value or worth of cigars posted here. Just because the occasional novice or uninformed buyer is suckered doesn’t mean that the prices he paid are the value of those cigars. Additionally, anybody who believes that all of the ridiculous prices posted get met is naive at best...whether the seller posts “done” or not. I know for a fact of at least two sellers who throw out silly prices, and even occasionally sell at those prices, but more often than not still have the cigars a month or two later when they rinse and repeat. Sold or not, the fact that someone posted those prices is absolutely no indication of the cigars value. I see quite a bit of “flipper inflation” perpetuated on OLH. It seems that some think that if a silly price is posted enough times that eventually someone will bite, thinking “that’s what they go for”.

I’m 100% for the free market, and totally behind a buyer being entitled to ask what he wants when selling his property, but when JoeFlipper posts a 7 year old box of cigars for 50% more than they can be had for from current production (and 60% more than they were purchased for), that doesn’t mean that the box is worth the asking price. And even if they do end up with a buyer, that’s still no indication that the exact same cigars can’t be purchased elsewhere at a more reasonable price. JMO though  ;)
[/quote]

:cheers:

[Fshaw]

[quote author=Hutch link=topic=44117.msg178832#msg178832 date=1520428252]
I’m gonna have to call bullshit on both the 5% rule, as well as the pervasive thought that prices on OLH are FMV, or even close to the value or worth of cigars posted here. Just because the occasional novice or uninformed buyer is suckered doesn’t mean that the prices he paid are the value of those cigars. Additionally, anybody who believes that all of the ridiculous prices posted get met is naive at best...whether the seller posts “done” or not. I know for a fact of at least two sellers who throw out silly prices, and even occasionally sell at those prices, but more often than not still have the cigars a month or two later when they rinse and repeat. Sold or not, the fact that someone posted those prices is absolutely no indication of the cigars value. I see quite a bit of “flipper inflation” perpetuated on OLH. It seems that some think that if a silly price is posted enough times that eventually someone will bite, thinking “that’s what they go for”.

I’m 100% for the free market, and totally behind a buyer being entitled to ask what he wants when selling his property, but when JoeFlipper posts a 7 year old box of cigars for 50% more than they can be had for from current production (and 60% more than they were purchased for), that doesn’t mean that the box is worth the asking price. And even if they do end up with a buyer, that’s still no indication that the exact same cigars can’t be purchased elsewhere at a more reasonable price. JMO though  ;)
[/quote]

Hutch, as usual, is the voice of reason...

[AlohaStyle]

Agree with what Hutch says and the idea behind it, but secondary selling has changed a lot over the last few years because of facebook groups.  Here, someone can ask a crazy high amount because they know people will want to negotiate privately and no one knows what a cigar actually sold for, or if it actually did.  With facebook, most of the sales/prices are visible to everyone.  After numerous sales of a certain cigar, market value is made.  Sure many experienced people will think the prices are BS, but if enough people are buying, that's really the value whether you like it or not.  Many sales are auctions so that makes for a better gauge of market value. 

The "BOTL" idea of selling cigars is long gone except to the FoGs... 

[grateful1]

It depends on the cigar.

There have been long threads on this...and it seems 2-3% per year is about right.
Now - if the cigar is hard to find...or had stellar reviews...or not stellar reviews...your mileage may vary.

Me...it's not a FOG idea to hold the price down to cost for the BOTL....it's a BOTL idea.

[Lotusguy]

Just look at this site. Whatever the market will bear and uneducated buyers that won't do any kind of homework will pay.

[canadianbeaver]

Do not mean to promote evil or anything, but here in the great north, any price here is about 200+% higher for many. Also, dealing with guys here can mean a trade or deal that will come to another brother or sister in the world without duty, and seeing their feedback. Including if they are to be avoided.

So let's not take a dump on the sellers every time. I was just in Palm Springs and the B&M's were nice place to sit and smoke, but more expensive than here in some stuff.

And about price increase, depends on the stick. Like 2016 BHK, even though It is the 2010 that is the big whoop. Most of us paid around $300 if I recall? Pretty much $812-$1134 a box. Look on the HK site.

CB

[ekert]

[quote author=Hutch link=topic=44117.msg178832#msg178832 date=1520428252]
I’m gonna have to call bullshit on both the 5% rule, as well as the pervasive thought that prices on OLH are FMV, or even close to the value or worth of cigars posted here. Just because the occasional novice or uninformed buyer is suckered doesn’t mean that the prices he paid are the value of those cigars. Additionally, anybody who believes that all of the ridiculous prices posted get met is naive at best...whether the seller posts “done” or not. I know for a fact of at least two sellers who throw out silly prices, and even occasionally sell at those prices, but more often than not still have the cigars a month or two later when they rinse and repeat. Sold or not, the fact that someone posted those prices is absolutely no indication of the cigars value. I see quite a bit of “flipper inflation” perpetuated on OLH. It seems that some think that if a silly price is posted enough times that eventually someone will bite, thinking “that’s what they go for”.

I’m 100% for the free market, and totally behind a buyer being entitled to ask what he wants when selling his property, but when JoeFlipper posts a 7 year old box of cigars for 50% more than they can be had for from current production (and 60% more than they were purchased for), that doesn’t mean that the box is worth the asking price. And even if they do end up with a buyer, that’s still no indication that the exact same cigars can’t be purchased elsewhere at a more reasonable price. JMO though  ;)
[/quote]

I like that, flipper inflation.  I see regular production '17 boxes being sold for 30%+ what they're readily available for. I guess some [i]really[/i] need those fifty bucks.

[aes8]

[quote author=Hutch link=topic=44117.msg178832#msg178832 date=1520428252]

I’m 100% for the free market, and totally behind a buyer being entitled to ask what he wants when selling his property, but when JoeFlipper posts a 7 year old box of cigars for 50% more than they can be had for from current production (and 60% more than they were purchased for), that doesn’t mean that the box is worth the asking price. And even if they do end up with a buyer, that’s still no indication that the exact same cigars can’t be purchased elsewhere at a more reasonable price. JMO though  ;)
[/quote]

+1, especially on the Free Market comment. What Hutch has described is the difference between a Free Market and an Open Market. The market is open in the sense that anyone (well anyone except Taps) can post, but only two people really know the transaction price and thus not really an Open market.

[da klugs]

The beauty of this site is access. (Thank You Wade)  Cigars are "available" some can be bought elsewhere, some not.  Some are fairly priced, some not.  But fair is relative.  Unless someone is buying all their cigars here, this is normally a place to get something you missed out on, want more of or don't have access or know of an alternative source.  An understanding or willingness to pay more than what they sold for in the past is implied.  I appreciate being able to buy things here and don't begrudge anyone who sells as I am choosing to pay for what they are offering to sell.

Regarding general price escalation the cost of money is always a fair metric.  If you are an investor and get a 5-6% after tax return on your money.. then your investment in cigars should generally have the same metric if someone [u]asks you to sell them[/u].. as they were a use of your capital.  Exceptions to this are frequent AKA the cigars escalate dramatically and it would be unbrotherly to ask that 5-6% escalation be used on cigars which are worth much more.  Not saying that applies or is fair in terms of [u]offering to sell [/u]particularly for the frequent sellers/flippers just an observation from a non-seller that occasionally gets asked to sell something.

$ .02