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I love the battle zone!!!  There's always something entertaining to read.  :bangin:

In the end this hobby is not as much about the cigars as it is about spending time with my BOTL and making friends with new BOTL...  :bigup:

Let me get this right, we have a high volume seller that's been into Cuban cigars for a nanosecond selling possible fakes of one of the most counterfeitted Cuban cigars to come out of Cuba in the past 5 years, and guys are jumping all over the buyer?  Perfect!  Really, falls right in line with all the douchebaggery I've seen posted lately.

[b]-Fact[/b]  An often used Cuban cigar vendor was caught selling fake Sublimes about a year or so ago.  He used a lame excuse about having them shipped direct from the wholesaler to the customer so he was unable to inspect them.  Eventually, after much drama, the customer was made whole, but most vets will no longer use this source.  As Bart is an admitted neophyte to Cuban cigars the odds of him being able to detect fake Sublimes were he to buy them is marginal at best.   
[b]-Fact:[/b]  I have had one deal with Bart wherein he purchased a box of cigars from me. 
[b]-Fact:[/b]  He was selling the same cigar with the same box code in 5ers for more money then he bought them from me for approx 1 week later.  He said they were from a different box he had bought prior to mine that he got at a higher price. 
[b]-Fact:[/b]  Bart offered no remedy at all to KingCohiba until after this was taken public and KingCohiba threatened to invole other members.  If 3 other members confirmed that these cigars were fake it would certainly ruin Bart's little side business wouldn't it.  Best to spin out a little damage control and offer up a refund right quick!

An ignorant noob profiteer selling fake Sublimes?  Naaah... couldn't be!! 

The Battle of Sublime's has come to a standstill. Which way will the war shift now? 

I would be very interested in getting one of these sublimes.  Whoever has them at the moment, let me know if this would be possible.

[quote author=Knuck42 link=topic=4255.msg24119#msg24119 date=1273631817]
Let me get this right, we have a high volume seller that's been into Cuban cigars for a nanosecond selling possible fakes of one of the most counterfeitted Cuban cigars to come out of Cuba in the past 5 years, and guys are jumping all over the buyer?  Perfect!  Really, falls right in line with all the douchebaggery I've seen posted lately.

[b]-Fact[/b]  An often used Cuban cigar vendor was caught selling fake Sublimes about a year or so ago.  He used a lame excuse about having them shipped direct from the wholesaler to the customer so he was unable to inspect them.  Eventually, after much drama, the customer was made whole, but most vets will no longer use this source.  As Bart is an admitted neophyte to Cuban cigars the odds of him being able to detect fake Sublimes were he to buy them is marginal at best.    
[b]-Fact:[/b]  I have had one deal with Bart wherein he purchased a box of cigars from me.  
[b]-Fact:[/b]  He was selling the same cigar with the same box code in 5ers for more money then he bought them from me for approx 1 week later.  He said they were from a different box he had bought prior to mine that he got at a higher price.  
[b]-Fact:[/b]  Bart offered no remedy at all to KingCohiba until after this was taken public and KingCohiba threatened to invole other members.  If 3 other members confirmed that these cigars were fake it would certainly ruin Bart's little side business wouldn't it.  Best to spin out a little damage control and offer up a refund right quick!

An ignorant noob profiteer selling fake Sublimes?  Naaah... couldn't be!!  
[/quote]



An interesting perspective... anybody else going to chime in?

I don't know any of the above to be fact, but knuck is usually pretty accurate with his posts from what i've seen. That being said when Bart did offer a refund (whether it be out of guilt or simply to appease the masses) it was rebuked as not good enough. KingCohiba wanted a new box instead. I am by all accounts a newbie, but that doesn't seem right.

[quote author=Knuck42 link=topic=4255.msg24119#msg24119 date=1273631817]
Let me get this right, we have a high volume seller that's been into Cuban cigars for a nanosecond selling possible fakes of one of the most counterfeitted Cuban cigars to come out of Cuba in the past 5 years, and guys are jumping all over the buyer?  Perfect!  Really, falls right in line with all the douchebaggery I've seen posted lately.

[b]-Fact[/b]  An often used Cuban cigar vendor was caught selling fake Sublimes about a year or so ago.  He used a lame excuse about having them shipped direct from the wholesaler to the customer so he was unable to inspect them.  Eventually, after much drama, the customer was made whole, but most vets will no longer use this source.  As Bart is an admitted neophyte to Cuban cigars the odds of him being able to detect fake Sublimes were he to buy them is marginal at best.     
[b]-Fact:[/b]  I have had one deal with Bart wherein he purchased a box of cigars from me. 
[b]-Fact:[/b]  He was selling the same cigar with the same box code in 5ers for more money then he bought them from me for approx 1 week later.  He said they were from a different box he had bought prior to mine that he got at a higher price. 
[b]-Fact:[/b]  Bart offered no remedy at all to KingCohiba until after this was taken public and KingCohiba threatened to invole other members.  If 3 other members confirmed that these cigars were fake it would certainly ruin Bart's little side business wouldn't it.  Best to spin out a little damage control and offer up a refund right quick!

An ignorant noob profiteer selling fake Sublimes?  Naaah... couldn't be!! 
[/quote]


I think those were Cohiba Sublimes Bill, not that the Montes were not faked as well. Listen there are plenty of fakes out there. I was a victim of fakes once. Fake Cohiba Sublimes and Cohiba DC's.  However to accuse someone of selling fakes should take much more than just saying that the cigars don't taste right. I can't tell you how many times I have had sticks not taste right and I had to chuck it. In the end Bart is willing to refund the money to this guy even though he has been very abrasive. Sometimes it's difficult doing the right thing when the other person is being an asshole. To accuse him of refunding the money just so the cigars wouldn't be sent out and verified as fakes is wrong. Also if you look at the pictures nothing seems to be off about these at all. I myself would have been comfortable buying this box if I liked Montes at all. I think it is a big jump from profiting from cigars to selling fakes.  This is just my humble opinion. What the hell do I know anyway.

i know that i did at first say that i would like a different box, but if you read later in the locked (unlocked now) thread a guy made a point that no seller would giv a refund without the product returned. i said something to the effect of yeah you are right, sounds good. here is the copy and paste.

Quote from: Bartolomeo on May 10, 2010, 05:50:26 PM
I am offering a refund for the 9 remaining sticks once I have received them back and inspected them

Bart




Quote from: kingcohiba on May 10, 2010, 06:02:00 PM
like i said that would be just pure stupidity to send them to you and still not be sure if i am going to be getting a refund.

i don't quite understand the logic here....




From an impartial standpoint.  Offering a refund for the 9/10 is the right/best case scenario.  That is exactly what I would expect out of a good seller.  And honestly what individual or company for that manner gives a refund BEFORE the product is returned.  That is just how things work in the world.

It is obvious, to me at least, that you two are having a difference of opinion.  A refund for 9/10 is the best option as you can both go your separate ways fastest.  Why would you draw this out by requiring the seller to refund first, I wouldn't do that either, or demanding he replace them with what you deem are real sticks.  Even if he has more are you going to require he send you the replacements before you send back the first shipment? Again I wouldn't do that either.

Send them back, get your refund and get done with this.

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kingcohiba
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    Re: Bartolomeo.....
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2010, 06:44:07 PM » 

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Quote from: kydsid on May 10, 2010, 06:36:31 PM



From an impartial standpoint.  Offering a refund for the 9/10 is the right/best case scenario.  That is exactly what I would expect out of a good seller.  And honestly what individual or company for that manner gives a refund BEFORE the product is returned.  That is just how things work in the world.

It is obvious, to me at least, that you two are having a difference of opinion.  A refund for 9/10 is the best option as you can both go your separate ways fastest.  Why would you draw this out by requiring the seller to refund first, I wouldn't do that either, or demanding he replace them with what you deem are real sticks.  Even if he has more are you going to require he send you the replacements before you send back the first shipment? Again I wouldn't do that either.

Send them back, get your refund and get done with this.


i think you are right. sounds good. 


the only reason i locked the thread is cuz i thought i was being treated less than fair. i had talked to him a lot in pm's and no progress was made. i saw no other option but to bring it here. i thought that was what this section was for? maybe i was wrong? i would take either, a refund a new box (as long as theyre legit) i really dont care! because i plan to by cigars with the money anyway! but if there will be no refund or different box i will send 2-3 out and give the rest to buddies to keep them from smoking my good cigars.

i only brought this here because
a. the cigars do not smell the part
b. some of them really up close do not look the part (some of them look nice)
c. they are some of them 1/4" short! I went through and measured evey damn cigar i have pretty much, and the only short cigar i have is a fake esplen. (it too being 1/4-5/16" short.
d. they do not taste like a cc at all. in fact they taste very nc....you guys are just like me. youcould tell the difference in country with a blindfold on.

and that being said i am sorry if anybody feels i threatened them (i didnt mean to) i just thought the name calling was out of line.

thas all i have.

Maybe name calling is out of line, buts the threats really are.

agreed. and i apologize.

Selling and trading cigars with peeps you don't know is just not worth it anymore...